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LBJ an accomplice in the JFK assassination?


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#1 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:49 AM

In 2009 former Life employee James Wagenvoord allegedly contacted John Simkin with information that RFK in the fall of -63 had given Life Magazine information about LBJ’s near involvement with the Bobby Baker scandal. The article was thought to run on the 24th of November 1963 and thus be sold to the public some three days later. But after the assassination in Dallas the article was stopped. Wagenvoord told (allegedly) Simkin that the entire article (perhaps several in a series of articles) was scrapped and never to be considered again. Henry Luce was said to have lost over a million dollar over the scrapped article(s).

First of all, Life had a lot of key roles in the pre- and post JFK assassination! Too many for it to be purely coincidences?

Secondly, what news organization would chose to suppress news like that – to be able to take down a president that was involved in criminal actions?

Thirdly, I wonder if this was sort of the “knife” against LBJ’s throat to follow orders and do his part in the assassination and cover-up? (Sort of like: if you dont do as we say this is what we will do to you).


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#2 Martin White

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:36 AM

I've heard this story too, but I can't recall where or when.

 

The "innocent" explanation is that Life decided that the country had been through enough following the assassination and decided that toppling the new President in a corruption scandal would be disastrous.

 

Whether anyone accepts that explanation is entirely up to them. There are alternatives, e.g. that it was discovered within Life pretty soon after the assassination that Oswald was not the sole participant (from the Z film or other sources) and decided that they needed to be in line with the "new masters".

 

Life certainly abandoned any journalistic vigour after the assassination, either way.


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#3 Adele Edisen

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:41 AM

This not directed at either of you here.   We shouold be aware that LIFE Magazine and its

owner were no friends of Kennedy or Johnson.  Any chance to create an unfavorable image

of these democrats would have been seized upon rapidly.

 

May I ask those who wish to believe Lyndon Johnson wanted to kill Prsident Kennedy and was

responsible for his death.  If that had been true, why did he try to keep JFK from going to Dallas

where the worst of Texas right wingers existed, and where he and Lady Bird had been attacked by

demonstrators in 1960 while campaigning for the Kennedy-Johnson ticket? Others - Adlai Stevenson

and Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez - gave the same advice.   Stevenson had recently been

attacked and spat upon while speaking before a group of Dallas community leaders.

 

All this and more is described by Horace Busby in his book, THE THIRTY-FIRST OF MARCH..

Busby was LBJ's speechwriter during most of his years in Washington.


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#4 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:15 AM

Interesting, Adele,

I do, however, believe LBJ had a key role in the assassination. It began right after Kennedy won the nomination in 1960, Biltmore Hotel, J Edgar Hoover, Joe Alsop, Philip Graham "convinced" JFK to run with LBJ as VP. That shows that someone (with CIA ties) worked hard to get someone in the White House, "only a heart beat away". I suppose we could call that sort of a "contignecy plan" that if JFK didnt play ball the plan would be set in motion, which is what happened. Then there are many strange "actions" from LBJ, or alleged actions I should say, that points to him being someone "they" could manage and steer. His many telling actions in the motorcade for one thing. Also, when he stepped down, he became paranoid and thought a sniper would take him out (at his ranch in Texas). I dont know how much truth that holds, but if it is true, then maybe he was out of the loop and had no idea what "they" would do to him. For me, there is no way LBJ was innocent, but equally there is no way he was the mastermind behind it all. Still, I appreciate any new info that I will learn from. :)



#5 Adele Edisen

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:59 AM

Staffan, I have never seen anything about Hoover, Alsop, Graham urging

JFK to accept LBJ as running mate. However, in 1956 Joe Kennedy, JFK's

father, offered to fund LBJ's campaign for president (if he was chosen and if

he would name JFK as his running mate). LBJ refused the offer. - he had

had a heart attack the year before,too. But, I think the real reason JFK

chose LBJ in 1960 was that with LBJ he could win in the South. LBJ was

a very strong democratic candidate with Roosevelt-like ideals and

background and approaches, who could also work with Southern Democrats.

In other words, (regardless of Bobby Kennedy's opposition, but with his

father's preference for LBJ) Jack Kennedy could win in the South . There

really was no one else who could help JFK secure the Southern votes and

Kennedy knew that as a political strategist.

 

As VP, LBJ was certainly linked to the Kennedy administration, and he

knew the political winds and trash of Texas.  There is no surprise that

he feared for his own life.  Every president and VP to this day has that

same fear.  All of us would too, if we were in his position..

 

We Americans have been fed a lot of propaganda about many events

and people..  

 

Yet, LBJ accomplished a lot of very good legislation for American citizens.

Civil rights, voting rights, equal pay, and much much more.  Yes, he was

lied to by his Cabinet and Joint Chiefs of Staff, and was manipulated.  He

made mistakes; he wasn't perfect, but then whosoever is?



#6 Greg Burnham

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

Adele,

 

As you are by now keenly aware, this is perhaps the only area of research into this investigation in which we could not be more diametrically opposed in our views.

 

While I do not believe for a second that LBJ was the "mastermind" behind it all, I do not view him as a good president nor even as a decent man. I am not convinced that his having pushed through some very good human rights, civil rights and equal pay legislation was due so much to his being a great humanitarian as it was due to his wanting to somehow get revenge against the rich, upper class for whom he harbored considerable resentment.

 

His "handling" of the JFK investigation was nothing short of criminal obstruction of justice.

 

His escalation of the Vietnam war was a symptom of his disregard for the value of human life--especially that of the pajama clad natives of Indochina. His having escalated it during the remainder of the Kennedy term was wholly inappropriate on its face. Under ANY OTHER circumstances, such actions that ran counter to the orders of the Commander-in-Chief, would have been treason. The only remedy available was the death of the president no matter how it occurred.


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#7 Larry Trotter

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

I suppose my "positives" about LBJ fall short of some mentioned. But, my "negatives" do also. As for the war in IndoChina, aka the Vietnam War, yes it escalated to the war we now know while LBJ was POTUS. However, I currently wonder, as I wander, if he escalated it, or allowed it to escalate, due to 11/22/63. Or maybe, he did believe it was the "right thing to do". It does appear that much of the USA population and many of it's leaders were mistaken about the need to escalate, and the ramifications of doing so. Defeating an "enemy of freedom", along with financial gain for certain "friends", could be hard to resist for some as well. JMO. FWIW.


Larry

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#8 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:04 PM

Adele, the source to the Biltmore Hotel is Evelyn Lincoln and RFK.



#9 Charles Drago

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:35 PM

"Accomplice" is vague.

 

Where in the Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic model would you place LBJ?

 

Among the sub-headings: False Sponsor.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#10 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

Mr Drago,

I kind of wanted you guys to give your assessment on LBJ's role (if any) in the JFK assassination. I have noticed there are three camps on the topic, one that believes LBJ was innocent, one that thinks he had a part in the event and one that believes he was the mastermind. As I see it LBJ had a pivotal role, seemingly "placed" (with help of Hoover and others) in the White House in 1961 as a VP, then the man who could control what would happen to the "investigation". I think it is obvious he had a part. Now, what part exactly? Sort of like the role of the one who could control and steer a cover-up.

 

"Where in the Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic model would you place LBJ?"

 

My guess is Facilitator. How do you see his role (if any)?



#11 Charles Drago

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:23 PM

I join you in placing LBJ within the Facilitator level.  But I also acknowledge his unwitting role as a False Sponsor.

 

The cosmetic authority of the presidency was -- and remains, I think -- a key component in the cover-up's control mechanism.


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"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#12 Harold Martin

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

Based on LBJ's released taped conversations, at least he was a controlling factor in the cover-up post assassination.  Afore knowledge of the assassination I think is harder to nail down.  There is the memorandum changing the course of the Vietnam war and if I'm not mistaken, the original date of writing was 11/21/63.  Perhaps Greg can nail that info down.

There are two factors to consider about the post assassination cover-up.  The role of LBJ and how much the JFK cabinet was involved in the cover-up.

I do believe like others that LBJ had no love loss for JFK and maybe even hatred for RFK.  As LBJ asked Hoover the day after the assassination, was anyone shooting at him.  I think this supports Adele's views about LBJ and his fear of being killed too. 

LBJ as Facilitator?  Cover-up yes, assassination no with one caveat.  There certainly might have been cabinet member(s) that had LBJ's confidence to alter the presidency.

Harold



#13 Charles Drago

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:09 PM

LBJ as Facilitator?  Cover-up yes, assassination no[.]

 

This amounts to a distinction without a difference.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#14 Greg Burnham

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:05 PM

Based on LBJ's released taped conversations, at least he was a controlling factor in the cover-up post assassination.  Afore knowledge of the assassination I think is harder to nail down.  There is the memorandum changing the course of the Vietnam war and if I'm not mistaken, the original date of writing was 11/21/63.  Perhaps Greg can nail that info down.

 

Consider it nailed.

 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#15 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:34 AM

Mr Drago: I agree with that too (the Sponsor bit).

Harold: "where they shooting at me" remark for the tape... I think that was either for show (he knew the tapes would be published someday) or he asked his buddy Hoover only to see what the response would be, since LBJ most likely was a "pawn" and someone who knew he was observed, controled and steered? I dont know, you could speculate this until hell pigs fly I guess.

Greg: Your COPA presentation is priceless to understand that the JFK cabinet was sort of like a school of sardines moving all together away from danger...



#16 Adele Edisen

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:29 AM

I cannot do the reading for people that would help them understand what happened in the

years before and after the assassination of President Kennedy.  Nor will I even be able

to explain to their satisfaction why those events occurred.   I lived through those years and 

learned a lot then and even more many years later in retrospect. 

 

My advice for others is to read more and do it very critically.

..


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#17 Greg Burnham

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:47 AM

See? There you go again, Adele. Saying something that I couldn't agree with you more about!   :D


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#18 Harold Martin

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:24 AM

Everyone should consider the life of a bureaucracy as being independent of anyone individual.  The continued cover-up is a bureaucratic mechanism not the actions of one person.

To that end, I agree we should all read more but as a caveat,  the never-ending list of participants, groups and organizations who "might" be involved only serve to propagate an unsolved crime.

The last great chance to bury the Warren Report was the hiring of Richard Sprague.  When forced out of heading the HSCA, the American public was left with more secret classifications of documents, the Mafia (wait, I'm still laughing), and Robert Blakey's future.


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#19 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:45 AM

Harold, off topic and to address your last part of the comment:

I think Walt Brown once talked about walking into Joliette Prison and make a citizens arrest of James Files, who "admitted" he was the one who killed JFK. Im not sure how a thing like that would play out, but I suppose there are some things that could be done. There should also be a case of defamation of the deceased if Marina Oswald or Lee’s children June and Rachel had the will and resources to process against the U.S. Government. That could get the case out in the open for the public to see. I cannot see why Oswald’s children wouldn’t also have a defamation case against many U.S. publications, since many of them dropped the alleged part around the 22nd of November 2013, where Oswald was no longer the “alleged assassin” but simply the “assassin”. Keep in mind Oswald was never proven guilty in a U.S. court of law.



#20 Harold Martin

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:12 AM

Hi Staffan,

Yes I am aware that Lee was never convicted and yet references, even in history school texts here, use the term assassin of JFK, NOT alleged assassin.

It is a sad state of affairs when the information of the education system in the USA is faulty.  Of course there are many inaccuracies in our education system and the information provided in textbooks.

This is only a guess but I would think Marina would like to leave this chapter in her life in the past.  Maybe some day her children will enter into a lawsuit to provide information such as Oswald's CIA 201 file.

Thanks,

Harold


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