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Oswald's Flight and Afternoon Tea with Tippit


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#21 Ray Mitcham

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:49 AM

Sheriff Roger Craig saw Oswald enter a white station wagon 15 minutes after the assassination.

 

Oswald confirmed this in Captain Fritz's office. A man impersonating Oswald in Dallas just prior to the assassination could have been on the bus and in the taxicab.

 Fritz asked Oswald "What about the car [that Craig said he saw Oswald getting into]?

"That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Ruth Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it. I told you people I did. . . . Everybody will know who I am now." 

 

Why would he say "That station wagon" when a station wagon wasn't mentioned by Craig?

If he hadn't known about the station wagon, why would he have mentioned it? He would have said " I know nothing about any car".

 

Who invented the bus story?

 



#22 Brian Kelshaw

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:55 AM

Adele.

 

It's my contention that the impostor was seen by Brewer. I think Lee was already in the theatre. The impostor might have been drawing attention to himself deliberately. The bit I find fascinating about the Theatre (they use the British spelling for some reason) is the report that Jack Ruby was in the back row, which is in the latest edition of "Crossfire".



#23 Adele Edisen

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:34 AM

Jack Ruby was maybe following him, maybe to shut Oswald up before he had a chance to talk.

as backup, because Oswald must not talk about what he knows..

 

I don't think I ever read anything about Ruby being at the Theater. until now. 



#24 Liam Kelly

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:09 AM

Yes Adele, the Commission put the time of the shooting at 1.15pm ,

but I believe the best evidence puts it close to1.06pm.

I am happy to accept Markam's assertion of 1.06 - 1.07 for the shooting as she was

leaving her house to catch her bus for work and is unlikely to mistake something she

did at the same time every day.

I am happy to accept Bowleys assertion of his  1.10 arrival at the scene, because it squares with Markam

..and the Methodist Hospital fixing Tippits arrival officially as 1.15pm corroborates them both.

If Roberts time of 1pm of Oswald arriving at the boarding house is valid, then he could not

have walked to the crime scene in time.

He would have had 2 or 3 minutes...impossible.

 

Its quite interesting that two pieces of "evidence" against Oswald have him moving at

exceptional speeds.

It would truly be laughable if it wasnt serious.

 

Yes Adele , I have read  this account, written by your investigator

friend / aquaintance I assume and it is interesting.

 

 

There were two separate transcripts of the police radio log at that time and

the second has Tippits shooting being reported to the Dallas police as 1.19pm.

The original police transcript has this occuring at 1.10pm

 

Like I said before, welcome to the wonderful world of the Dalas Police and fairyland.

 

 

Now talk about the authorities being caught in their own lie..

 

Consider this:

 

I refer back to my post above concerning Adian Hamby, the library employee.

He was interviewed by Dale Myers who seems to have completely missed the

importance of one piece of his information.

Hamby's shift started at 1.20pm.

When he arrived, there were already law enforcement there at the corner of

Jefferson and Marsellis before he parked his car.

What were they doing there?

Hamby never mentioned he was late when asked when he started work.

And so that means he would have been at the corner a few minutes

before 1.20pm

He spoke with them briefly and then went into work.

He was seen going into the library by an officer who radioed at 1.25 pm

that the suspect had gone into the library.

What this really means is that the Commissions time of 1.15 is baloney,

and that the original transcript was correct and the second was altered.

The fact that the police were already there before 1.20pm  is proof of

the deception.

They are claiming that Bowley was advising them of the officer down (1.19pm) at the

very same time as the road block or cordon was being set up at the corner of Marseliis and

Jefferson.

Another example of just how astoundingly psychic the Dallas Police were that

day.

 

The last revision transcript of the logs puts the call about the suspect at the library

at 1.34pm!

 

Why revisions etc?

There were quite a number of copies made of the original recordings.

It is extremely doubtful the ones on record are the originals

And transcript differ.



#25 Brian Kelshaw

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:29 PM

George J. Applin, one of only two theatre patrons questioned by the Warren Commission mentioned a man who was sitting at the back, whom he advised to move because of the commotion with Oswald and the gun. He said that the man just sat there, watching what was happening. In 1979 he told the Dallas Morning News that it was Ruby, and that he'd kept that from the Commission out of fear for his life. In the same passage in "Crossfire" Jim Marrs says Burroughs reiterated that the same man he saw arrested entered the theatre just after the movie started, that is just after 1.pm. This was confirmed by Jack Davis. Davis told Marrs that the man arrested originally sat next to him, just after the movie started. He remembered it vividly because he thought it odd that the man chose the seat next to him in an otherwise deserted 900 seat movie theatre. Davis' testimony is critical, because it identifies the man arrested as the man who entered the theatre early, he saw both events. It follows that it was the lookalike that was seen by Brewer, which suggests he may have been luring the police to the theatre. Interestingly, Brewer knew Oswald from a previous visit, when he bought some shoes from him. Annoyingly, I can't remember where I read that, but it seems he remembered the shoes he sold him, and that Oswald did in fact own said shoes (they were listed amongst the possessions taken from the eeevil Ruth Pain's house) .

#26 Liam Kelly

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 07:19 AM

One other thing I always wondered about the Tippit story was this:

We know when Tippit was shot.

It was between 6 and 8 minutes past one.

Markam said so, TF Bowley said he radioed it in at 1.10 and the methodist hospital

has Tippit DOA at 1.15pm.

So forget the FBI and the Dallas police.

They altered their radio transcripts but got caught out because Adrian Hamby started work at the

library at 1.20pm and police were already looking for Tippit's killer.

So.......

Most people think that Tippit's shooting was altered so as to give Oswald time to get to the scene

to shoot him.

I thought carefully about this.

Why would the conspirators care so much about Tippit to change more evidence and take further

risks.Who cares who killed him...etc.

I asked myself ..what was the most important thing that conspirators wanted to achieve at that point?

Maybe It wasnt the framing of Oswald for Tippit's murder.

Maybe it was to protect the Lone Nut scenario...NO CONSPIRACY. and didnt care

about Tippit so much!

 

You see, there was absolutley no need to add 9 minutes onto the time of the Tippit

shooting to fit the Oswald killed tippit scenario.

All they had to do was to subtract 9 minutes away from the time he left the boarding house and most

importantly , the time he got there.

 

Now Mrs Roberts at the house said she thought Oswald came in around 1 but she said she wasnt really sure

of that , but she was fussing with the TV cause the news of the president's shooting had come on.

 

Now that newsflash and broadcast is available to see today.

The newsguy says "forgive me ..being out of breath, we've had a tragedy downtown some 10 to 15 mins ago" or words to that effect.

So the broadcast came on Dallas local TV at aroun 1.43 - 1.45 approx.

 

So what if Oswald did indeed walk in at 9 mins to 1.

Why didnt the FBI just change the cab drivers times ..it would have been possible.

 

Maybe because..

If Oswald had walked in at 12.51 it tallies nicely with something else.

That is the 5 witnesses who said they saw him get in a car at 1240-12.42pm.

Its a 5 minute car ride to his house from town.

 

It fits a conspiracy so nicely its very neat.

And it also explains why the police and FBI went to so much trouble and

shannigans with the cab driver and especially the bus driver.

The evidence of which is as suspect as you can get.

 

You see it wasnt so much that Oswald just HAD to be at the Tippit crime scene at 1.15.

It was that Oswald HAD to have arrived at home at 1pm.

 

That sure would explain a lot of things nicely.

 

 

Just some thoughts



#27 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:01 AM

Adele,

A friend of mine wrote a book about "Radio Nord", a pirate radio station situated on a ship in the Baltic Sea back in 1961. My friends father was a man named Jack Kotschack, who went to make a deal with Gordon McLendon in Dallas in 1961. It turned out that Clint Murchison came to finance the radio station, using Robert "Bob" Thompson as the go between. My friend Jan Kotschack and his brother followed their father to Dallas in 1961 and he (Jan) remembers staying at Clint Murchisons home in Forest Lane, Dallas. There Bob Thompson took care of them. I have found out that Bob Thompson was perhaps a co-owner in the q club in Washington with Bobby Baker - a club that LBJ and Murchison eqally perhaps were secret owners. Im not sure.
Anyway, I know Thompson was at the McLellan hearings in I believe -64. Then he totally vanished and never heard from again.

 

I have a photo of them in Stockholm in 1961 that I cannot upload! (:



#28 Greg Burnham

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:08 AM

I have a photo of them in Stockholm in 1961 that I cannot upload! (:

 

Staffan,

 

Send it to me in email and I will post it for you.


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#29 Adele Edisen

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:20 PM

Staffan, that is most interesting.about McLendon's boat.   Such a small world it is sometimes.

Thank you for that story link.


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#30 Greg Burnham

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

Posted for Staffan:

 

GORDON_THOMPSON_JSK.jpg


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
 
Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#31 Larry Trotter

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

Oh well, what's in a name? I believe the gentleman on the left, in the picture, is Gordon McLendon. Just curious as to the specific identification of the other gentlemen.


Larry

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#32 Liam Kelly

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:59 AM

Just to add to the earlier post

 

There is no evidence that contradicts Oswald possibly arriving

home at the boarding house at 12.48 - 12.49pm, except the testimony

of the cab driver.

He said he dropped Oswald off some distance from his house around 12.55.

He also said that when Oswald got in his car in town, just before they took off

an old lady popped her head up to the open window and said "driver can you

call me a cab down here" or words to that effect.

Oswald then said "I will let you have this one" as he opened the door and put one foot out.

The lady then said " no thats alright, the driver will call me one"

So he slides back in, closes the door and they take off.

 

To me, that is ludicrous, and simply not believable if Oswald had just shot

the president.

The streets were already crawling with police, the buses were being stopped and searched.

Oswald's heart would have been in his mouth and pounding hard.

To think that he would have risked capture by showing a courtesy like that,  only to be stuck

downtown longer, is simply too much! lol.

 

So to me it shows something very wrong with the cab driver's testimony.

 

In fact if you look closely, many other elements of the timing (the real timing)

 fit amazingly well if you have Oswald arriving home at around 12.51.

 

There are witnesses to Oswald leaving the TSBD in a car with other/s,

There is very little credible evidence of anything else.



#33 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:06 AM

Thanks, Greg. From left to right: McLendon, Thompson and Kotschack.



#34 Greg Burnham

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:22 AM

Thanks, Greg. From left to right: McLendon, Thompson and Kotschack.

 

Sorry for posting them in reverse order, but your email had it backwards, too.


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
 
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#35 Gordon Gray

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:57 AM

If it was Oswald in the car that Craig saw, why did they let him out? They had in their control and could simply whisk him a way to be eliminated. Why go through all the monkey shines with the Texas Theatre?



#36 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:57 AM

Gordon, I think that was the plan - to kill him at the theatre. But he "resisted arrest" and the cops may have gotten nervous and couldnt make it happen. Maybe.



#37 Liam Kelly

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:00 AM

Well, Oswald had a revolver and he was heading somewhere.

To the theatre?, the library (to lay low) , or to Jack Rubys.

But he WAS going somewhere and he didnt have his toothbrush.



#38 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:48 PM

Liam, I see you picked up on the toothbrush! LOL. But it is not for certain that he really had a revolver. I dont think that claim could be made... or do you trust officer MacDonald's statement? I dont, and I think Armstrong and others proved it wasnt Oswald's gun, so he wouldnt have a holster in his rooming house either.



#39 Liam Kelly

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:46 PM

Hi Staffan, no I dont neccessarily accept a lot in the Tippit story.

How can you? its bizzare!.

Its "keystone cops"

We have the time of the shooting altered on the police transcripts..I have no doubt of that.

We have witnesses seeing Oswald going this way and then that.

We have a mysterious wallet at the scene, we have witnesses saying two men involved, otheres saying one.

We have at least two witnesses saying that a police car was lurking up the alley imeadiately after the shooting

when according to DPD there couldnt have been.

We have no forensic examination of Oswald's clothes for Tiippits blood which is astounding.

We have a revolver in the DPD supposedly Oswalds with no fingerprints on it..not even the police who handled it.

We have Oswalds's ID being taken from his person at least three times.

The list goes on.

 

If I was in charge, I would have all the DPD police officers, all the FBI and all the witnesses at the Tippit

scene and I would lock them in a room and not let them out until they all agree on an account!

 

I would be a little carefull on John Armstrongs writing on Tippit , not that I dont have the greatest respect for his

work, I do, but he says for instance that Barret and Westbrook saw Oswald's ID in the wallet at the

scene , which is not correct from my reading.

I have found no-one claiming to have seen Oswald's ID at the scene..only the wallet.

That part we already know cause it was captured on film , and what Barret said was

 "why would they be asking me questions about Oswald and Hidell if it wasnt in that wallet"

.Well thats not the same thing as saying he saw Oswald's ID, so we should be careful.

 

When you read about the events in Dealey plaza its not too bad.

The witness are fairly consistent, (albeit some variations).

Witnesses saying man / men upstairs with rifle, three or four shots

Half (approx) say TSBD, half say the knoll as the shots origin.

You see the police acting more or less as you would expect and with

reasonably quick reactions.

 

Move on to the Tippit scene and its a completely different story.

As a matter of fact , the action of the police was so , that you would think

they had a crystal ball.

Most of the witnesses must have been on drugs.

 

Of course, the above could not be true, however, the official account

is bizzare and not credible.

Its no wonder the comission had to go back to the DPD 3 or 4 times months later for

a "final" version of the police radio transcripts.

Thats cause the story didnt make sense.

 

And...it still doesnt.


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#40 Gordon Gray

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

I don't think the plan was to have Oswald killed by the DPD in the Theatre. Much too complicated and too difficult to control. The risk of his being taken a live was too great. Doesn't make sense. The reason I don't think the man Craig saw getting into the Rambler was LHO, is it would make no sense to release him after they had him in the car. Oswald was seen by a number of witnesses in a number of places that day, where the man arrested by the DPD could not have been. Under stress situations it Is very easy to mistake one person for another, if they have the same general build, hair, and complexion,


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