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Oswald's Flight and Afternoon Tea with Tippit


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#1 Liam Kelly

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:10 AM

If we say for a moment...

Oswald leaves the TSBD and catches a bus.
We have a very curious thing.
And we suppose his plan is to go home.

So...he walks up Elm st as two Oakcliff buses are coming toward him some blocks ahead.
One of these buses (the Beckely bus) would take him up to his home 1/2 mile or so from the otherside of the Houston viaduct.
The other (the Marsellis bus)  only goes to the edge of the other side and turns off at Marsellis some distance shy of his house.

So which one does he catch?

He gets on the Marsellis bus!

Why did he do that? Its the wrong bus!

He could have caught either as they were both coming toward him so why?

Well the curious thing is, if he had stayed on the bus and it had not been delayed, he would have been on it when it
turned off at Marsellis and.. had he gotten off at the first stop he could have walked over and met Officer Tippit
who was sitting in his patrol car at the Glocco Service Station right at that time.

At approxmately 12.35 pm Tippit (in Oakcliff) and Oswald (in town) both made a decision and performed an action on purpose and almost
similtaneously, to be in the same place at the same time... some 15 mins later.

Oswald catches the Marsellis bus that goes past the Glocco and Tippit drives up to the Glocco and parks there.

Considering Oswald chose the "wrong" bus to his home in the first place that is one hell of a coincidence to me.

Cosidering Tippits movements that day its very hard to believe that he came upon Oswald by chance.

If you look at a map of their known movements it really does appear that Tippit had some idea where he should be
when cruising slowly near 10th and Patton

His movements really do seem to be those of someone who is looking for someone and further, from his demenour as reported by witnesses
seeing him speed away from the Glocco and then at the Top Ten , he again appears to be a man who has lost something.
Or someone!., Is in a hurry and is agitated.

What does all this mean?
Well given that scenario ,it seems highly possible that there was a pre-arranged meeting for Oswald at the Glocco.

He was following the plan..he got on the Marsellis bus.

But ... he baulked..perhaps he was realizing he was being set up.

Suddenly he made a decision , he was worried, maybe something had gone wrong.
That morning he did not feel that his life was in danger, he didnt need his gun, and so it wasnt with him.
But now..just maybe, there was some kind of treachery beginning to show itself,
he should go get his revolver before the meeting..just in case.

That would mean he had to get over the viaduct quicker than planned so he could get his gun and then walk down
to the Glocco.
So..its off the bus to get a cab.

He gets his gun , but realises from the TV inside his boarding house that the time is getting away from him.

He had miscalculated a little..and why not , he wasnt wearing a watch.It took him longer to get out of town (even with a cab) than he thought.

So he stands near the bus stop debating whether or not to walk down the road to the Glocco and decides he is too late and heads
the other way towards Jefferson.

A minute ot two before he arrived at his house in the first place , Tippit , down at the Glocco , Tippit panicks...no Oswald!!

Tippit screams off in hurry according to witnesses.

Just as Oswald is leaving his house, Tippit is making what appears to be an urgent phone call at the Top Ten, where upon it appears
nobody answers and he rushes out of the store jumps in his car and is seen running a stop sign in his haste.

Minutes later , after cruising slowly down the back streets only a few blocks away and stopping to talk with a man walking
down the street, Tippit is shot and killed.

The alleged muderer is then apprehended just up the road sitting in a picture theatre.

And by a happy circumstance for all law enforcement, the cop killer is also the man that shot the president!.
Which is why the FBI was able to wrap it all up in less than a week!

One thing is for certain.
The closer one looks at the Tippit killing, the more bizarre the entire official JFK story appears.
 



#2 Adele Edisen

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

Hi, Liam,

 

I don't know if what I will suggest to you would be of any interest or help in figuring out what the

Oswald-Tippit afternoon tea party was all about.  Was Tippiy searchig for Oswald?  Or was

Oswald searching for Tippit?  If it was Tippit's police car that beeped as if to signal someone at

Oswald's rooming house, was that a signal fo Oswald to get going or what?  All quite confusing.

 

Howevef, when I read your interesting article about Oswald's and Tippit's travels, it made met

think of an article I posted on these Forums some time ago:

 

http://forum.assassi...klif-on-112263/

 

This was about Gordon McLendon  (owner of radio station KLIF) blurting out on the air that

a policeman Tippit had been killed at the Texas Theater, of all places.   I think Oswald had

been directed to go there to meet his handler, whoever that might have been. 

 

Since McLendon also blurted out some informatiom about Oswald, but not his name, this also

suggests that McLendon, a CIA asset/employee of the Far Eastern Division of the CIA as I

unerstand it, already knew the plot and the plan for Dallas,and for the 'patsy'.Oswald..   

 

His mistake was in revealing the original plan for Tippit at the Theater.  He never approahed the Texas Theater, although he may have been close by at the music store where he used the telephone and        '

left in a great hurry.  Did someone warn him of danger then?  Or did they give him a sighting of the President's killer at Tenth and Patton streets?

 

Based on witnesses statements, Oswald was never seen there at Tenth and Patton.  I exclude Helen Markham's reports, and accept the first line-up reports of witnesses at the police station who did not

identify Oswald at the killer of Tippit.  They identifed Oswald at their subsequent.line-up viists after

threats, etc., from the police.  The most reliable witness' testimony in my estimation came from   

Aquilla Clemens  (spelling?), who went to her front porch immediately after the shots were fired and saw a stocky man with full head of hair standing over the body of Tippit with a gun in his hand.   Across the street from him was a tall thin man.   The two men took off, rummimg in opposite directions..

 

Killing Tippit and blaming it on Oswald was to make Oswald seem like a blood-thirsty killer 

Perhaps Tippit was put up to  kill Oswald before Oswald would talk to officials, but now Ruby

had to finish the job..                                             



#3 Larry Trotter

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

For me, after studying various research for some time now, I am not convinced that DPD Officer JD Tippet was shot and killed by Lee H Oswald, or a "double". The horn honking police car at the N Beckley St rooming house, however, is troubling. But, I also recall reading about a "safe house" nearby, and the possibility exists that JDT encountered another "suspect" from the area, and the "two men" seen by Ms Aquilla Clemmons (sp?) needs full consideration as well. JMO.


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#4 Liam Kelly

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:23 PM

Hi Adele,

 

Very glad to meet you and hi Larry also.

Very interesting and even more so in the light of Marie Tippit’s statement that another officer told her that they were looking for Oswald.

The Dallas police let slip a strange statement similar at the time.

Actually I do have a pile of research stuff concerning this and local info etc.

I will have a search and get back to this topic after I have had a chance to look because I seem to remember a similar reference.

 

Now as far as the police car honking out the front.

I have a possible explanation.

If you look at the boarding house it is only just up from the corner of the main road.

If you walk straight out the door to the front, turn right , you go about 25 yards to

the intersection where there is a set of traffic lights.

Actually the lights are quite close.

Now,  traffic travelling down Nth Beckley towards the intersection you would have to stop at those lights.

Every time that light is/was red, itis highly probable that there is at least 3-5 cars waiting for the light to change.

3-4 car lengths back from the lights puts you out the front of the house.

Given the nature of the day, with police cars flying around the place , it certainly is possible there was a Police car right there at the time waiting to enter Zang.

But..the “toot toot’ may very well have been the driver signaling to the driver/s ahead that the light was now green and to get going.

Examining the street and the lights and the house visually ..its a definitely possiblility.

However I do accept that we just dont know, but given that my suggestion is reasonable possibility , its difficult to see what else it could be.

It does look as though Oswald was on the move and going exactly where he wanted to go and not waiting for anything, including signals or otherwise.

Perhaps if were were to solve the Tippit episode we might know.

 

And yes Larry , Im not sure if the safe house which you are referring to is the place at 3128 Harlendale, but there did indeed exist a a house in the same general area but some distance away that was known to the CIA , FBI and the Secret Service.

In fact, the house was rented by a man name Rodriguez who was a member of the DRE and Alpha 66 and about whom a Secret Service memo dated 11/24/63 states was "..known to be violently anti-President Kennedy.".

The report also established that Rodriguez was a serious enough threat to
the President to be placed on the Secret Service's "Protective Research".

The house was reported by Sheriff Buddy Walthers as as known Cuban hangout where Oswald had been seen.

Which is itself amazing to me considering the date of the memo!.

This info comes from Dick Russell if memory serves me correctly.

 

As to Aquilla Clemens, either she saw real the killer/s or what she saw was Callaway just after he had grabbed Tippits revolver.

However, looking at what Callaway did and her account it does not seem so.

 

Having said all that, in the Tippit story , one of the things that occurred to me after some time was that it really does seem to me that it was almost like half of the witnesses had not seen the same thing as the other half.

The witness accounts are indeed extremely troubling.

Sometimes it seems like every second person in Oakcliff had some agenda that I don’t understand.

Of course, that is not likely , but the truth is in there somewhere.



#5 Larry Trotter

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:36 PM

Very well stated Liam. And yes, the N Beckley rooming house is very near the intersection, as on my last trip to Dallas, or thereabout, we explored some of the Oak Cliff "locations", but that was in '98 and we only did a"drive by".

As for Oak Cliff "agendas", it is likely to find various "inserts" from that day that just wanted to be part of history. Not all of course, but very likely a few. It is possible Ms Clemons(sp?) was mistaken, but I do believe she saw "what she saw".

I very much agree that a complete understanding of the actions and reactions of Lee H Oswald and JD Tippet on 11/22/63 would be very informative regarding the JFK and JDT murders.


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#6 Adele Edisen

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:06 PM

Liam,

Since you are familiar with the streets of Dallas, I wanted to ask you in my first reply, where is

Tenth and Patton in relation to Oswald's roomig house on Beckley.  Would Tenth and Patton

streets be on the shortest route from the rooming house to the Texas Theater?

 

Where is Weat Jefferson in relation to these streets and to the Texas Theate?  I am not very

familiar with Dallas geography. 

 

Another question regarding Aquila Clemens' statement.  I don't think there was ayone else

other than the stocky man with bushy hair, the thin tall man, and Tippit's body when she

ran out on her front porch.   Accordin to Mark Lane's interview of her, she had been warned

and threatened by Dallas police for speakng out about what she saw.

 

Who was Callaway and what did he do besides remove Tippit's gun - from his hand or where? 

 

If Callaway was a police officer, where did he come from?  Did he shoot Tippit?  Years ago

when I read a number of articles on the Tippit killing, someone wrote of police behind or

next to a house near to where Tippit's car was parked and suggested one of them had

killed Tippit.   Another article suggested Tippit was there to visit a girlfriend of his and was

killed by Oswald.

 

Oswald as suspect in the Tippit case does not make much sense to me.  Even John Armstrong's

Oswald double did not convince me, primarily because of the lack of valid eye witness

identifications.of Oswald, or look-alike, at the scene.

 

And, of course, the Gordon McLendon  premature story of Tippit rushing into the Texas

Theater chasing the suspected killer of the President - with another policeman.

 

Here is the URL for the KLIF broadcast on 11-22-63.   McLendon's statemegt is at the

end after the time of 2:42. Listen to end of tape.

 

http://www.youtube.c...qvDryXU5kahDaY5

 

There is so much I have not read on the Tippit killing, even on this Forum due to lack of time.

I am glad to know that someone like you who researches very thoroughly is working on this.

and I will be one to benefit from it along with others.  It bears heavily on our understanding

of the JFK assassination.    Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us. 

I hope you do not mind my questions because I have to catch up on what I may have missed 

over the years.

 

.



#7 Liam Kelly

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:46 AM

Hi Adele,

 

I have drawn Tippits path in blue and Oswalds in Green.

These paths are what we know from witnesses.

I left out any green near the murder scene as it may be conjecture.

Hope this helps visualize.

 

 

Oackcliff.jpg

 

Yes, a significant number of witnesses in Dallas and elsewhere where told to shut up after giving there

information and / or affadavits.

They were told not to discuss the case with anyone and other such rubbish.

Some were also threatened.

 

Ted Callaway was a businessman who worked just down the road from the shooting.

He heard shots and went to investigate.

Found Tippit, grabbed his gun and then and after placing the gun on the car bonnet,

then grabbed it again and went looking for the killer,.

Came back to the scene..police are already there, hands the weapon to one of the officers saying.."this is the officer's gun'

and later makes statements etc.

He saw the killer fleeing the scene.

 

And yes you are right.

There were two witnesses that reportered seeing a police car immeadiately after the shots.

Apparently it was seen in the driveway near tippits car but it reversed back into an alley

that seperates the residential blocks there and vanished.

A tad mysterious as it was before, and independent of, any record of police arrival.

 

Thanks for the link I had a listen..sounds like a misreport to me but

its so interesting to hear what was being said so early on, and all recordings like these

are indeed, history in the making.

 

One of the things thats really interesting about the Tippit shooting is the Dallas police.

At Dealey plaza, the police appeared to conduct themselves pretty much as you

would think police would and should.(with a few exceptions)

 

But..when you look at the Tippit scene its like you suddenly stepped into an episode of

keystone cops.

It really is noticable,  to me at any rate.

 

And, following the lives of some of the players in oakcliff in the aftermath  is like a hundred

episodes of days of our lives.

 

It seems in 1963 , Oakcliff was one hell of a suburb.



#8 Charles Drago

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:53 AM

I find your posts to be most interesting, Liam.

 

Quick question:  Are you related to Seoirse Micheal Evica, Paeder Scott, Séamus Douglass, or Greagoir Burnham?


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#9 Gordon Gray

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 10:47 AM

Fascinating posts Liam. The Tippit shooting is one of the most curious aspects of the assassination plot. Was it part of the overall plan or an improvisation when Oswald didn't show up where he was supposed too. Was Tippit involved in the plan, and if so to what degree? Did LHO and JDT know one another? Where there two Oswalds? On your map you should also point out that Jack Ruby's apartment was only a few blocks away from 10th and Patton an also that Tippit passed by it on his way from the Glocco station to the Top 10 Records. Where did you find your info on the two buses? This is the first I have heard of that. I have always assumed that the Marsellis bus was the one he regularly took.



#10 Larry Trotter

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

When viewing a Google (others as well)  arial map, the alleys near the center of the blocks in Oak Cliff are very visable. But, something troubling to me, is the location of the reported taxi exit at W Neeley St, and N Elsbeth St is one block away. As I recall, Lee H Oswald at one time lived on W Neeley St, near N Elsbeth, and also lived on N Elsbeth St, not far from W Neeley St, which apprears to be 3 or 4 blocks from 1026 N Beckley. Did he forget his current address? FWIW.


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#11 Adele Edisen

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

Liam, thank you so much for the map.   More questios for you later, but right now, here

is Mark Lane's interview of Aquilia Clemons:

 

... r_embedded

 

 

Video - abou three mnutes long.

 

I had forgotten that she said she ran out to the street and to Tippit's body.



#12 Adele Edisen

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

A few questions, please.

 

1)  Where on your map would the Top Ten record shop be?  When on a bus tour of assassination

     sites of interest, we stopped at that music store and I remember it was not too far

     from the Texas Theater which was our next stop.

 

2)  I understand from another witness report that 4 cartridges from an automatic pistol were found

     near Tippit's body, but Oswald had an ordinary, not an automatic, pistol. with a different kind of

     bullets with no cartridges (I am no gun/bullet expert, but have read this).. Police offiicer Poe

     scratched his initials on the cartridges, but when he saw them again some time later, they had  

     been changed.

 

3)  What is the significance of the El Chico restaurant?   Is that where Tippit and Oswald ate

     breakfast at the same time, but were not together?

 

4)  It was said that the distance between Oswald's rooming house was about 2 miles.  Could he have

     walked/run that far in the time he had to get to the Texas Theater?

 

5)  How much before Oswald arrived at the Theater did the 2nd Oswald go in without paying

     for his ticket?



#13 Liam Kelly

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:36 AM

Hi Adele, Charles, Gordon, Larry thanks for your interest.

It is an interesting tale to say the least.

 

Oh and Charles, alas I have no connection, genetic or otherwise to the

esteemed group of people you mentioned.

 

Adele, the Top Ten is located across the road from the Texas theatre and up on

the corner of the next block..right where Tppit’s blue line goes north for one block

on the map above.

In other words at the furthest left point of the blue line, or again, directly across the

road from the "D" in "BLVD" on the map to the left of the theatre.

 

Gordon, quite correct and in fact maybe I should have made the post topic a longer article

and included more info and observations.

 

Indeed Jack Ruby's place was in a direct line almost from where Oswald was

walking from, depending on where we say he walked.

Although its still in the same direction.

 

However, something else is also in that direction and which I have not seen much about.

 

Examine a possibility thus:

 

Oswald gets on the Marsellis bus, his intention is not to go home at first.

(otherwise he would have gotten on the Beckely Bus etc)

 

I started searching for old bus timetables and routes some years ago when trying

to see what possibilities existed for Oswalds transport in those hectic minutes.

 

I couldnt locate times but I did locate routes and I was able to establish from other

references that the two buses left at the same time from the bus station at was then Murphy St.

 

In fact I came across a photo, (nothing to do with the assasination), in a tourist promotional  guide

of Dallas circa 1963 which showed the very  two buses on elm st.one right behind the other.

Its also confirmed by the bus driver and Im as sure about it as one can be.

 

There is a reference to the buses being one behind the other in the comissions report  , I think in the bus

driver's testimony or in his affadavit.

 

In fact, the obvious question about this .is strangely absent in the official reports despite the fact that the

FBI said they checked all the busses and possibilities, there doesn’t seem to be any discussion of whether

Oswad was initially going home or not.

 

And there should have been.

 

Back to Oswald:

 

If Oswald was not meeting Tippit at the Glocco, then where might he have been going?

 

Well , his bus would have taken him close to the corner of Marsellis and Jefferson.

 

Now Rubys apartment was very close to there.

 

But also right there, at the corner, was the library.

 

He had a library card and we know Oswald was a library “buff” if you will, being an avid reader.

This is not questioned by anyone I’ve heard of.

Perhaps he originally caught the bus to head for the library.

To lay low…

Remember , Tippit had not been shot as yet and it was just another day in downtown Oakcliff

at this stage, despite the presidents murder on the other side of the river.

 

Consider this …something I put in another topic about the wallet.

Ill summarise some of it here:

 

Kinsley, one of the ambulance drivers, stated in the Dealey Plaza Echo in 1998 that when he and

Butler (other ambulance man) pulled out of the Funeral Home on Jefferson to answer the call on

Tippit’s shooting only ½ mile away, they nearly ran over a man who he later  said was Oswald.

The actual Xerox copy of the article is at Weisberg’s documents site at Hood.

The man was running along the median strip and was heading toward the libarary.

 

Now , we know from Adrian Hamby, the library employee who was mistaken by the Officer

from the Dallas police for the suspect when going into his workplace , that when he arrived at the library at 1.20pm,

there were already law enforcement right there.

Boy that’s quick!

Which means police were already starting to close off the area at maybe 1.15-1.20pm

Perhaps Oswald saw police and changed his mind.

We really don’t know, just another possibility.

 

As far as the shells / bullets are concerned..welcome to the wonderful world of

of the Dallas Police, Alice and the looking glass and the land of Nod.

A police radio broadcast by Dallas policeman Hill, identified the spent cartridge by implication of his words “the suspect is armed with..automatic” .

Very strange considering bullets for automatics are very clearly marked “auto”  or “A”

The ballistics evidence is inconclusive at best and is indicative of a frame up at worst.

An interesting page about the ballisitics and other :

http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm

 

The place where Oswald and Tippit were seen regularly having breakfast was the

Dobbs House restaurant according to a waitress there.

The El Chico restaurant was the place where, a man allegedly saw Oswald in vehicle

AFTER Oswald had been taken into custody and the story can be found here:

http://jfkcountercou...-resaurant.html

 

Tiipit was shot approx 9/10 mile from Oswalds boarding house.

Looking at the map shows the theatre just a little farther than that.

Apparently it takes 12 minutes to go from the boarding house to the crime scene so to the theatre I would guess maybe 16 – 18 mins.

Oswalds entry to the Texas Theatre is put a little before 1.45pm but Butch Burroughs,  

said in 1987 that Oswald came in at 1.00pm and that he sold him popcorn at 1.15.

However , years before to the Warrren Commission he said he didn’t see him at all..

Oswalds arrival time is problematic,

 

Adele , you well point out that Clemmans said she went up to Tippits body.

Mark Lane, although I am a big fan , does have a habit of only presenting the little bits he wants to.Well…he is a lawer I guess lol

I would have been interested in seeing him ask more question of Clemmans and Im sure he did , but there it is.



#14 Brian Kelshaw

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

A couple more points to add to the confusion. In the excellent "Girl on the Stairs" Barry Ernest, in his investigation of the Tippit Murder spoke to Mr & Mrs Donald Higgins. These were two people not previously questioned, either by Dallas Police, the FBI or, consequently, anyone from the Warren Commission. They lived at 417 East Tenth. Mrs Higgins recalled the following:-

"I clearly remember 3 shots, but there could have been one or two more. Two seemed close together and there seemed to be a pause before the final one."

And as to what time she heard them she said

"It was 1:06"

"How can you be so sure of the time?" Ernest asked.

"Well, I was watching the news on Television and for some reason the announcer turned and looked at the clock and said the time was 'six minutes after one.'" "he said it just like that, 'six minutes after one' and you know how you do, you automatically check your own watch. So I just looked up at the clock on my television to verify the time and it said 1:06. At that point I heard the shots"

Asked if she was positive about her recollection of the time she replied "Yes I am, I'd bet my life on it".

She saw someone running away, but was extremely reluctant to describe him. Ernest pressed, " Was it Oswald" (I love this bit):

"Mrs Higgins stared at me, not harshly, but more like my mother used to when she was making a point. 'He definitely was not the man they showed on Television' she answered with a sigh. 'Is that what you wanted to hear?"

Given the other accounts (the time of the bus Helen Markham was headed for, the delay before the report to the police on Tippit's radio etc) I consider Mrs. Higgins' timing of the shooting to be pretty much cast iron. I am tentatively putting together a timeline of events that day, and 1:06 is the time I'm using as the most likely time of the shooting.

I'm going to Dallas from 20th to 25th November for this year's anniversary, and am staying at a B&B only a few doors away from 1026 N. Beckley. (I was lucky enough to have a mini tour of the building last year, courtesy of the owners and through the good offices of Brian Edwards and Casey Quinlan). I intend to have a good walk around Oak Cliff (although Tenth and Patton bears no resemblance to its 1963 incarnation now). If anyone wants anything confirming, please let me know.

#15 Liam Kelly

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:06 AM

Hi Larry I forgot to add this in my last post.

 

I always assumed that Oswald asked to go to the 500 block of Nth Beckley so he could

drive past his house and observe whether or not it was crawling with cops.

When he saw the coast was clear he asked the cab to stop and got out and walked back to his house.

He also may not have wanted to give the cab driver his actual address.

Remember, the TSBD had an old address only, for Oswald, not his current one.



#16 Gordon Gray

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the bus info Liam. LHO could not have shot Tippit unless he was driven to 10th and Patton. According to Armstrong, a man resembling LHO was seen walking west 10th around 1:PM, by at least 4 different witnesses. That would be coming from the general direction of Jack Ruby's apt. I have speculated that this man may have been the Oswald look a like seen getting into the Rambler. He could have been dropped off at Ruby's apt. where he picked up a weapon and then was making his way toward the Texas Theatre to meet his contact and be taken out of Dallas. The Rambler had other passengers and probably needed to continue on to a safe house. This man is the one seen by El Chico's and also seen taken out of the rear of the Texas Theatre.



#17 Liam Kelly

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:56 PM

Actually , Gordon, Craig wasnt the only witness identifying Oswald as getting into the

station wagon either.

And ..when you look at the testimony of the bus driver closely and the FBI reports, there is

some doubt in my mind about all of it.

The finding of a perfectly flat uncrumpled bus transfer on Oswald, after he had wrestled

with police officers is odd to say the least.

And the way the evidence was gathered, ie following the bust transfer serial numer up with the

bus company and such is even more suspect.

 

As to Tippit..

It seems to me that when Tippit stopped at the Top Ten, we can say a few things with almost

absolute certainty.

The phone call was urgent and important to Tippit.

It was not police related.

The president had been shot and reports were starting to come in from the public.

He would have been under enormous pressure to stay in his patrol car, by the radio.

It was standard procedure to inform the dispatcher if you were going to be away from

your radio , even for a few mins to get a coffee.

We can fairly deduce therefore, that

 

One: Tippit needed to make a very important and urgent call and this call was not police business.

Two: That, given the high alert status of the police at that very time, he was not going

         tell anyone know about it.If he had left the car without advising Jackson, the dispatcher, and

         particularly if it was personal business etc, he would have been disiplined, especially considering what

         was happening at the time and he was the only officer in the area.

So he took a risk and hurried.

We know that when he left the Top Ten he was still in a hurry and ran the stop sign on Sunset.

 

Of course in the Tippit shooting, one 64 million dollar question  is:

 

What was it that caused Tippit to go into the back streets where he was seen cruising slowly after

running around like a madman.

 

Apart from a couple of minutes which could be traffic or slight a error in witness recollection, Tippit

almost whent straight to the area in which  he was killed, and that area had no reason to come

under police suspicion for anything at that time.

 

To suggest that Officer Tippit was cruising slowly through the backstreets, looking for

someone who might have answered the description of JFKs assasin in the city is

too far fetched for me.

 

There was no spotlight on Oakcliff at the time.

Thats why there was only one officer left there.

 

Unfortunately there could be a number of answers that have nothing to

do with Oswald.

 

It is indeed quite baffling.



#18 Adele Edisen

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:59 AM

Brian, assuming that Oswald went to his Beckley rooming house and picked up up a

revolver, and then walked to the Texas Theater, probably down Beckley to Jeffeson

Blvd and turned right to go to the Texas Theater, how long would that walk be  - 12 to 15

minutes, at a 'normal'  pace for a man 5'8-9" tall (for Harvey)?  How long might it take

for you?   I assume it's about a mile, and Oswald popped into a shoe store for a few

moments.

 

And about his revolver.   If he did not own one, could someone at the TSBD have

handed it to him before he left there?  Or, if he did own one, did he carry it to work with

him every day and hide it at work, so his landlady never saw it in his room?

 

The time of 1:06 PM s when Ms Higgins heard the shots that killed Tippit seem to be

reliable.   In that case, Oswald had barely walked into his rooming house after walking

from his cab stop and then quickly leaving (if that was the real Oswald - Harvey) then

he could not have been at Tenth and Patton at that time to shoot Tippit.



#19 Brian Kelshaw

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:18 AM

Adele: Barry Ernest made several attempts to replicate the walk from 1026 N. Beckley to the site of the shooting. his fastest trip was 11:58, his slowest 13:21. given what he discovered from Mrs Higgins when he got there I doubt Oswald had anything to do with the shooting (but then I always have). There are serious problems with the bus and taxi journey story, no witness to it would have withstood cross examination. Given Butch Burroughs saw our Oswald and sold him popcorn at approximately 1:15, then he almost certainly went straight to the Texas Theatre, and if he walked, I suggest he walked along Zangs Boulevard. That's where he was last seen by Earlene Roberts, and it's a direct route, As an aside, our Lee was a seriously unflappable guy, I mean, he buys popcorn!! If it takes a minimum of 12 minutes to walk to Tenth & Patton, 15 minutes is probably about right for the walk to the Theatre

 

Liam: When visiting 1026 last year we were given a fascinating talk by the owner, the grandchild of the landlady at the time, Mrs Johnson. She said two things of note. Firstly, Mrs Johnson, Earlene Roberts and even sometimes herself as a child went through the belongings of the boarders more or less daily. Given that many different types stayed there, they did so to ensure there were no booze or weapons. She was quite confident "Mr Lee" as she knew him wouldn't have been able to keep a gun in there. (A point worth noting, having been in the room and sat on the bed, even someone as obviously schooled in undercover work as Oswald would be hard pushed to hide anything in that room, it is tiny!). The other thing she said was that Earlene was known to "romance" a little, that is, her stories were often spiced up for the listener.

 

Gordon: A possible destination for the Rambler is the Trinity River, to meet up with the plane carrying Robert Vinson. Possible occupants? The Oswald lookalike and David Sanchez Morales. "Flight from Dallas" is a fascinating read.



#20 Adele Edisen

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:26 AM

Liam,,

Thank you for answering my questions above.

Now for Tippit.  Brian's post seems to nail down the time of the Tippit shooting to 1:06 PM that day,

a time when Oswald reached his rooming house and then quickly left for the Texas Theater. probably

maybe gettinmbg there some 20 minutes after he left.  I assume one mile or so distance and shoe store

visit.   Maybe around 1:25, 1:30 PM at the Theater?

 

There were two Oswalds at the Theater, the first one to arrive may have been the imposter who went

up to the balcony and was let out the side or back door to the alley and driven away in a police

car.  He may not have paid for his ticket causing the ticketseller to call the police..  Before this,

Oswald had come in, paid for his ticket, looked for his handler and moved from seat to seat.

The order of arrival at the Theater may have been in reverse order from my scenerio.

 

When Julia Postal, the ticket seller was questioned by an investigator I happen to know, he told me

that she had become very emotionally upset when he asked he to describe Oswald, so much so that

she ran into a restroom to calm down.   He returned a few days late and with her permission began

to make his inquiries again.   Once again she began to cry and had to leave him to compose heself.

He was mystified by all this and could make no sense of it.  It had to do with Oswald in some way.

 

Some years later when we spoke of her again, and he had had time to learn more and think about it,

he said that he thought she knew and realized that the man that the Dallas police had

arrested that day for not paying for his movie ticket had not been the man who had sneaked into

the theater.   She hadn't known what to do or say and felt terrible about it.   We don't know what

the police had told her, either, on what to say or not to say...






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