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The Grassy Knoll Trajectory


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#21 Gordon Gray

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:26 PM

Brian. Interesting photo. A throat shot would have been highly problematic  IMO. Remember Connolly was sitting inboard of JFK at that moment and would have partially or totally obscured a view of the President. Also the car hadn't slowed as much at that moment so the shooter would have to be tracking to thread his shot between Greer and Connolly to hit JFK. The bullet would have had to pass right by Connolly's left ear. Hard to believe he didn't notice. Further I would think a high velocity bullet fired from that distance would have created more damage to the throat IMO. Not to mention the possibilities of deflection presented by the tilted glass windshield. At the time of the headshot Connolly is lying in Nellie's lap and JFK has moved toward the center of the rear seat, so the line of sight is more likely. However I still have question about the windshield deflecting the bullet. All the positions to the right of the limo afforded much better lines of sight. 


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#22 Brian Kelshaw

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:56 AM

Gordon. The one thing that sticks out from the witness testimonials is that the first shot sounded like a firecracker. I've seen discussion elsewhere online suggesting that a high velocity shot hitting glass makes just such a sound. I believe this to be an area that requires a lot more study. I personally doubt that the origin of the throat shot, if through the windshield, could have been from the location of my photo, but I would like to explore the possibility suggested by Sherry Fiester that it could have been the source of the head-shot. I don't see the windshield as an obstacle, as the Lincoln is much lower than the shooter, affording a view of Kennedy from above the windshield. I now have a digital SLR with decent zoom and some unwitting motorists are going to be targeted this coming November!
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#23 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:48 AM

The limo was delivered by Hess & Eisenhardt in April 1961, and in August the Secret Service had the builder remove the privacy glass.

 

McHugh was not between the agents in the front seat that day.

 

The trajectory through the windshield defect/hole per the Secret Service dimensioned sketch and the "nebula" seen in Altgens at Z-225 per Don Roberdeau's map projects to a similar Terminal Annex lot location.

 

 

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Anthony DeFiore in his 300-page analysis of a throat shot at Z-225 does mention an assassination attempt on the president and vice president of Taiwan as they rode in a Jeep--witnesses heard firecrackers which sounds resulted from shots through the windshield.

 

This is after all the most important murder of the Twentieth Century, one which was dictated by the approaching election by which he who threatened to break CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds might acquire a mandate for that and other unacceptable blows to the Empire

 

EO 11110 removing the power of the Federal Reserve was to be undone

 

Withdrawal from Vietnman via NSAM 263 ditto

 

We have indications of Phillips, Hunt, Morales in Dallas, that perhaps Morales was using Herminio Diaz Garcia and others of the small army of angry and willing assassins created by the Bay of Pigs provocation

 

LBJ had announced the luncheon April 23

 

There was ample time to plan the crossfire

 

Sniper teams would have sighted in the firing lines

 

Security was stripped:  motorcycles removed from obstructive formation, agents off the back, McHugh out of the front seat, the limo slowed by the turn and by Greer braking

 

WerBell would later become the legendary Sionics with suppressors of magical capability--defense technology is always ahead of the public perception

 

The crowd was drawn to the Grassy Knoll

 

No one noticed any vehicle which might have left the Terminal Annex lot

 

All in the manner of the maddening invisibility of the Beltway Sniper(s) in 2002

 

Which is not to say there were not teams in the sixth floor west window, Dal-Tex, at the fence, from the drain

 

He could not leave the Plaza alive

 

The preparation of the patsy was masterful from the 1959 defection to the Brehm description and the theater trap complete with throw-down

 

Plumley and Sergio may have been a screen--it may be a brazen reverse-psychology, claiming a shot over his shoulder; then up and over the tracks, sliding down the muddy slope for a ride

 

 

 

 


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#24 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:50 PM

Liam and others: If the Z film has been altered (which many of us believes) and the autopsy photographs as well as the x-rays have been faked/altered/substituted - then how can we know in what position JFK held his head when he was hit in the head?

Also, David Mantik have suggested JFK could have been hit in the head with three shots (!): One in the lower back of the head, one in the hairline right above his right eye and one just above the right ear (which allegedly was the bullet that possibly caused the blow-out in the back of the head).

If this is true, it would mean that JFK was possibly hit with 5 bullets! (One wonders how many that missed?)

Concidering the "fake factor" it is therefore most likely meaningless to speculate from what exact position each shot came from. Blood spatter analysis would therefore be a hard thing to do IMO. I guess it all comes down to what the Parkland people saw; that is all we can count on for sure (and that is not either really a sure thing.)



#25 Liam Kelly

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:45 AM

Staffan, you are of course exactly right.

My opinion on this:

It means the Z film totally ceases to have evidencary value on its own.

That is, nothing in the film is proof of anything.

It can be used however, as a tool of corroboration , only when

coorroborating primary evidence for which there is a solid basis and

which does not need to refer back to the film in any way.

In other words A + B proves C undeniably, and we can also see in the z film...etc ect etc.

But C needs to be proven by A + B first.

 

Or again, the Z film cannot be proof of anything on its own, nor can it be used to corroborate

circumstantial evidence.

 

However, therein lies the very interesting paradox.

 

Remember, the Z film is a film of a murder.

 

If the Z film can proven to be tampered with,  then it is itself, all on its own,  primary evidence of a criminal cover up!



#26 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:59 AM

OK, Liam,

I agree with you that you could use the Z film as proof of Government complicity (or more than complicity). Me and my colleague Pete Engwall have tried to put forth the idea that one should be able to make a reenactment on the speed of the limo (using the measurements in the Z film) and then use that to duplicate Clint Hills running. I asked Costella about it and he thought that someone had actually done that (but I have never seen it). Sure, we cannot get an exact result, but you would at least be able to get a good feel for how that kind of running would work out in reality. We of course believe the limo stood still and that several seconds had passed - and perhaps Hill was told (by Emory Roberts) to stop Jackie from getting off the limo. If the Z film was a pre planned film (which we believe) then they couldnt have Jackie getting off and walking the street when the car was suppose to run the entire time! Why Jackie got up onto the trunk of the car is a mystery; but we can assume that if there were many shots fired into the car, we think the most logical gut reaction from her (when her husbands head is blown to pieces) was to get away from the bullets. I dont like when researchers kind of let everyone know she only got up on the trunk to fetch a piece of her husbands skull. How the heck would anyone know that, especially when she didnt remember she did it at all? And if the car came to a full stop, and Clint Hill started to run at that point - how many seconds had passed since the first shot? We dont know, but we believe its around 10 seconds. Hill reacting after that long period puts his actions in a different light. Well, Im rambling on off topic here. What Tippit thread is yours? :)



#27 Larry Trotter

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:49 AM

As a student of the research of the JFK assassination, I do appreciate the research that I am able to study. And, I am thankful to the researchers, but sometimes I have questions and tend to disagree. As for Clint Hill, I don't recall any testimony stipulating he "was instructed to keep Jackie B Kennedy in the limousine". I believe he was reacting to sound and JBK's reaction to JFK's throat and/or back wound when he left the SS car. And, I believe JBK was reacting to JFK's head coming apart and was trying to recover a missing piece while somewhat in shock, when she reached back onto the trunk of the limousine. I do believe, based on various witness statements, that the JFK limousine did possibly come to a stop, but if so it was quick, and far short of 10 seconds. As I have contended for awhile, I believe the limousine driver, SS Agent Greer, was reacting to the actions of DarkComplectedMan, and possibly TheUmbrellaMan, as well as possibly the sound of a shot, when he slowed and/or stopped the car momentarily. I do not discount Zfilm alteration, but how much, and where, remains a question. I tend to believe the Stemmons Freeway sign may have been tampered with on film, along with frame removal and duplication for timing. But, if so, then the Nfilm was made to match the assassination sequence. In any event, a South Knoll and/or parking area does appear to be a strong possibility, along with the Elm St sewer drain and the RR Underpass drain, and the fence area(s).


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#28 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

Larry,

I was not clear about the 10 seconds. I believe the shooting, from the first shot to the last shot, took about 10 seconds, or close to it - that is if the limo stopped, which I believe it did. I dont know why Hill ran, Im just specualting of course. Otherwise you fail to follow my logic: If the limo stopped, and stood still for 2-4 seconds, before the final head shot, then Clint Hills reaction must have been very slow. And if the film was planned to be "the best evidence" against all spectators in Dealey Plaza, then we must reason/speculate as to what made Hill run (so late)? Thats all I am saying. It all becomes speculating of course, and you could be right and I wrong. I also believe Greer reacted to the Umbrella man/Radio man (dark complected man) with the purpose of stopping the car. But that is equal specualtion based purely on some sort of logic. The thing with "Jackie reaching for a piece of her husbands skull" is based on what? That a doctor told the world she gave it to him? Or some SS man saying it? Jackie Kennedy had no memory of her ever climbing on to the trunk of the car and we cannot be sure of what we see in the Z film as being a true event is is shown.



#29 Larry Trotter

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

Staffan,

Your response is much appreciated. As far a total of 10 seconds for the entire shooting sequence, that is very possible. Especially considering the probable noise suppressed shots. I have trouble with a very long period for a limo stop, and base that somewhat on the reactions of the Newman family standing on Elm St. As for Jackie, I am relying on the Zfilm and Nfilm, and that's what her reaction appears to be. But yes, I do understand the reliance on the films to be somewhat problematic. However, for me that is what I believe her actions were, and I just don't see or hear/read anything that is proof otherwise. But, absolutely speculation on my part. As for the Zfilm, it is hard for me to believe Mr Zapruder's filming was a pre-planned event. What I do believe, is possibly there were rumors about what may happen in Dealey Plaza during the motorcade, and that prompted several cameras to be in use. Now that, to me, is quite a coincidence. And, it is quite possible the event was filmed professionally, but tucked far away somewhere.


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#30 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:16 PM

Thanks Larry,

After following John Costellas research (and presentation on line) the film simply had to have been a planned event IMO. I do believe in Costella and Horne and Healy. At least one has to go through what that sort of scenario would lead to, what the consequences would be. But since I am no "technical expert" I have to rely on people like Costella and my colleague Pete Engwall, who is a genius when it comes to understand and interpret different kind of physics. I still have hopes for the true film surfacing some time in the future.



#31 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:16 AM

Steffan, the driver Secret Service agent Thomas Shipman died of a heart attack at Camp David October 14, 1963 insuring Greer would drive.

 

I concur with your stipulation Walkie Talkie Man (and Umbrella Man) signalled Greer to stop.

 

We call Walkie Talkie Man Walkie Talkie Man because he was talking into a walkie-talkie.  It might've been a milk carton, but so few of them have antennas.

 

WTM steps into the street, raises a black leather gloved fist and pumps it.  Greer stops.

 

I agree with your stipulation Zapruder is not some Mickey the Dope.

 

Camera Specifications

Camera Maker: Bell & Howell.
Model: 414PD Director Series
Film Type: Double 8mm - 25ft or 50ft film roll
Film Speeds: ASA 10 to ASA 40
Running Speed: Single frame, 16fps and 48fps (slow motion.)
Lens: Bell & Howell Varamat f1.8 / 9-27mm - Power Zoom
Mechanism: Spring Motor
Lightmeter: Built-in Dual Electric-Eye.
Non-reflex viewfinder (parallax corrected and coupled with zoom.)
Additional Parts: Removable Pistol Grip with built-in thumb trigger.

Note: 414PD, the "P" is for "Power Zoom" and "D" for "Dual Electric-Eye."

http://www.copweb.be...uder Camera.htm

 

There were few spectators at the site.  Witnesses were intimidated, ignored, misrepresented.  Film and cameras were confiscated so that incriminating evidence could be destroyed.

 

David Josephs has touched on your question on Hill's Run.  He has suggested the camera's 48fps setting was used to provide material for editing.

 

Zapruder partners with DeMohrenschildt's wife?  Zapruder in a deal with LIFE?  CD Jackson Ike's psyops chief in war and peace?

 

Even the current hash shown on Rivera 1975 is stunning--and an in-your-face frontal shot

 

Of course the film is a slice-and-dice:  how many cite a stop, dramatic slowing, pause, halt, yet all we see is the same speed--is it 11.3 mph?

 

A flurry of shots.

 

A whisper of WerBells

 

Mantik, who posited as many as three headshots, notes the lateral has Area P for patch (or it's really six inches of solid bone) and the stereo pair of the back of the head has a flat in the wound seen by forty (conservative) to eighty (Groden)

 

as though it's the same matte in both pair images

 

Horne found so many anomalies with the photos and the photographers, the media, exposures, details--so much forgery, so many missing

 

Zapruder was one of the right-wing Dallas crew for whom Kennedy was a dangerous president

 

Removing him was patriotic

 

As for Jackie not remembering

 

Her testimony was classified

 

Her responses would be similar to Ted's reply to Ed Hoffman

 

We're familiar with all the conspiracy theories and speculation and it's painful and we're satisfied with the Warren Report

 

Please don't kill us

 

She was trying to hold his head on; that she was reaching for a piece of skull is a remarkable act of desperate devotion

 

The car is stopped.  A flurry of shots.  Greer finally turns front and drives.

 

Then he does the melodramatic blubbering Mrs Kennedy I'm so sorry--

 

We are not moved

 

Roll credits

 

Camera: A Zapruder

 

Special Effects:  Hawkeyeworks

 

It was after all a crossfire:  Dal-Tex, West Depository, Fence One, Fence Two, South Knoll, Sewer/Not Sewer

 

All that was in the East Sixth was the box-stacker though the star witness saw a military intelligence description of Lee Patsy Oswald

 

51brqo.jpg


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#32 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:24 AM

Phil,

what a poetry summation! I agree with every word.

 

Well, perhaps not every word (LOL):

 

"WTM steps into the street, raises a black leather gloved fist and pumps it."

 

I believe that was John Carlos in the 1968 Olympic Games, but I sense its easy to make that mistake :D



#33 Vasilis Vazakas

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:09 AM

excellent analysis by Phil as usual. I particularly like the photograph that he created showing the south knoll shooter. I laso agree with Sherry Fiester's analysis regarding the head shot. Al, the evidence point to 3 shots hitting JFK. One from somewhere behind, possibly the Dal-Tex hitting him in the back below the shoulder that did not penetrate, a shot in the throat from the front possibly the South Knoll and a headshot to the temple from the South Knoll near the overpass. I don't think there was a headshot form the grasy knoll or a shot near the EOP from behind per Josiah Thompson's theory, at Z329.



#34 Vasilis Vazakas

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:51 PM

Phil

 

Do you know if Deputy Chief Lumpkin was the person who advised SS agents, Lawson and Sorrels to change the route

and drive through Elm St? 



#35 Larry Trotter

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:00 PM

I suppose it's okay to repeat myself, as long as I continue to listen. But, the motorcade Elm St zig-zag will forever be a sore spot to me.  A continuation on Main St, just past the Stemmons Frwy to Riverfront Blvd, and then to Market Center Blvd to the Trade Mart luncheon location just across the Stemmons Frwy, removes Elm St from the route. Either way, the distance from Dealey Plaza to the Trade Mart appears to be a little over 1.5 miles. In '63, Riverfront Blvd may have been named Industrial Blvd, but with a police escort, the elimination of the zig-zag to Elm St would have equalized the travel time, if that was a concern, which I tend to doubt.


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#36 Matt Hawkins

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:09 PM

Only subsonic cartridges can be silenced. Handgun rounds, usually either a slow speed 9mm, or a 45 acp. Fired from a semi-automatic handgun or carbine. Max effective range around 100 yards.

Frangible bullets create massive entrance wounds, usually with no exit wound. The massive JFK headwound could have been made with a frangible bullet from a silenced gun; agreed shot from the front. The throat and back wounds would not have been made from frangible bullets.

The location of the back and throat wounds could theoretically both been created from a shot from the rear, but not at the sixth floor level. It would have to be closer to a ground level shooter, with an angle going from the right side entrance at Kennedy's back, to the central exit at Kennedy's throat. Which would locate the position of the shooter. From a ground level, or near ground level, shooting, with a side to side angle (not an up and down angle), the bullet may? not have been recoverable (went off into the distance).

What bothers me concerning a front shot to the throat, there is no exit wound, there was no recovered bullet.

Granted recovered bullets may have been disposed of, rather than entered into evidence.



#37 Gordon Gray

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:11 PM

Hi Brian. Sorry I am not able to quote posts, but I think that if a shot from the South Knoll struck JFK in the neck, the sound of it hitting the windshield would have been noticed by all in the limo,.and Connolly would not have missed it whizzing by his left ear. A head shot from the South Knoll is more likely IMO, as JFK has mover toward the center of the rear seat and Connolly is lying down, no longer in the line of fire. The sound of the bullet through the glass would be les likely to be noticed in the confusion after the first two (or many more) shots.


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#38 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:44 AM

Gordon, "the sound of it hitting the windshield would have been noticed by all in the limo"... I believe it did. Have you ever followed the late Doug Weldon's research? Im sure you have heard and read about the first shot sounded like a fire cracker. According to Weldon that sound is equal to firing through a hardened windshield. However, if JFK was hit in the neck by a shot that went through the windshield many questions arises: What caliber was it? Where did the bullet go? And if it wasnt a shot that hit him in the neck but a piece of glass from the windshield, did anyone else get hit?



#39 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:38 AM

In Altgens 6 Kellerman may be looking at the hole in the windshield (which Dudman and others saw).  I presume Greer's complicity, and the Connally's and Jackie were totally occupied. 

 

The firecracker sound was noted in the assassination attempt on the president of South Korea when bullets were fired through the windshield as noted in the Anthony DeFiore paper.

 

We have metal fragments in the lateral skull which Fiester says emanate from the temple entrance.  We know this pattern was too high to match the original autopsy claim of an EOD entry resulting in the Clarke panel raising it four inches or ten centimeters--and Humes still couldn't find it for Jeremy Gunn in the ARRB deposition.

 

As for the throat exit, Custer insisted a C-3/4 x-ray showing metal fragments was missing, and many (I among them) have assumed the open gash in the stare of death reflects a desperate use of retractor and forceps to find and remove inconvenient bullets, fragments, missiles, darts--for Perry made no such incision and the incision he did make left the small round wound inviolate.

 

Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassinations Record Review Board, Volume II, Chapter Five: The Autopsy X-Rays, pages 530-2:

 

Custer Examines the X-Rays of the Body

 

The noteworthy highlights of Custer's review of the x-rays of the body was Jeremy's attempt to see whether Custer could identify metal fragments near any of the cervical vertebrae, which Custer had mentioned earlier in the deposition.

 

Jeremy showed Custer x-ray no. 9, a view of the chest prior to removal of the lungs, and the  exchange went as follows:

 

Gunn:  Previously, you referred to there being metal fragments in the cervical area.  Are you able to identify any metal fragments in this x-ray?

 

Custer:  Not in this film.

 

Gunn:  Does this film include a view or an exposure that would have included such metal fragments?

 

Custer:  No sir.

 

Gunn:  Where would the metal fragments be located?

 

Custer:  Further up in there.  This region.

 

Gunn:  Can you—and you're pointing to?

 

Custer:  Up into the, I'd say, C3/C4 region.

 

Jeremy asked Custer to review x-rays no. 8 and 10, of the right shoulder and chest, and left shoulder and chest, respectively—both are images following the removal of the heart and lungs. Custer could not identify metal fragments in either x-ray.

 

Later, Jeremy asked Custer the following questions:

 

Gunn:  Now, you had raised, previously in the deposition. . .the possibility of some metal fragments in the C3/C4 range.

 

Custer:  I noticed I didn't see that.

 

Gunn:  You didn't see any x-rays that would be in—that would include the C3/C4 area?

 

Custer:  No sir.

 

Gunn:  Are you certain that you took x-rays that included the—included C3 and C4?

 

Custer:  Yes, sir.  Absolutely.

 

Gunn:  How many x-rays did you take that would have included that?

 

Custer:  Just one.  And that was all that was necessary, because it showed—right there.

 

Gunn:  And what, as best you recall,  did it show?

 

Custer:  A fragmentation of a shell in and around that circular exit—that area.  Let me rephrase that.  I don't want to say “exit,”  because I don't know whether it was exit or entrance.  But all I can say, there was bullet fragmentations [sic] around that area—that opening.

 

Gunn:  Around C3/C4?

 

Custer:  Right.

 

Gunn”  And do you recall how many fragments there were?

 

Custer:  Not really.  There was enough.  It was very prevalent.

 

Gunn:  Did anyone make any observations about metal fragments in the C3/C4 area?

 

Custer:  I did.  And I was told to mind my own business.  That's where I was shut down again.

 

Gunn:  You have, during the course of this deposition, identified three x-rays that you are quite certain that you took, but don't appear in this collection.  Are there any others that you can identify as not being included?

 

Custer:  That's the only three that come to my mind right now; the two tangential views, and the A-P cervical spine.

 

Gunn:  Okay.

 

Custer:  Can I add something to that?

 

Gunn:  Sure.

 

Custer:  In my own opinion, I do believe, basically, the reason why they are not here is because they showed massive amounts of bullet fragments.


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#40 Gordon Gray

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:55 PM

Staffen I am well aware of Weldon's work. My point is the sound that all in the Limo would have heard would been the sound of a firecracker going off at that  location of the windshield, no more than 10 feet in front of them. At that time all were facing relatively forward. Hard to believe none would have noticed this. It would be as if a firecracker went off on the dashboard and they had no idea of it's location. Further JFK was seated far to the right at the time he was hit and Connolly in board of him, If Connolly wasn't in the direct line of fire he would have been close to it. How is it that he was oblivious to a bullet passing close to his left ear?. On the other hand it is quite possible for the bullet that stuck JFK in the temple to have pieced the windshield and not been noticed immediately. At that time Connolly was lying in his wife's lap, JFK was further to his left and there was plenty going on to distract them all.


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