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Bill Simpich's State Secret

Oswald Mexico City Angleton JMWAVE Morales Harvey Mole hunt CIA Goodpasture Moskalev

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#1 Alan Dale

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

Hello gentlemen,

 

Happy to be here.

 

Bill Simpich’s new book State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City, Double Agents, and the Framing of Lee Oswald is now complete and available for reading online at MFF.

 

 

Preface

http://www.maryferre..._Secret_Preface


Chapter 1: The Double Dangle

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter1


Chapter 2: Three Counterintelligence Teams Watched Oswald

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter2


Chapter 3: The Cuban Compound in Mexico City Was Ground Zero

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter3


Chapter 4: Mexico City Intrigue – The World of Surveillance

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter4


Chapter 5: The Mexico City Solution

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter5


Chapter 6: The Set-up and the Cover-up

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter6

 

 

Conclusion: Only Justice Will Stop A Curse

 

http://www.maryferre...cret_Conclusion

 

 

My one hour, seventeen minute interview with Bill may be heard here: http://www.jfklancer...versations.html

 

 



#2 Greg Burnham

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:40 AM

Welcome to the Forum, Alan! Thank you for posting these links. They will no doubt provide much foods for thought and provoke more research into the specific subjects covered by Simpich.


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#3 Alan Dale

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

^ Thank you, Greg. Glad to be here. Thank you for for hosting.



#4 Stan Wilbourne

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:11 PM

Hello Alan,

 

Thanks for posting Simpich's work here.

 

I haven't had the chance yet to give a thorough going-over,  so it may not be fair for me to comment on it.  However...

 

Doesn't Bill end up pointing a firm finger at Harvey and the Morales crew as the instigating force in the assassination of JFK?  Doesn't Angleton, for example, get off with a "possible" pass,  as per involvement?

 

Over the years we've heard about "renegade" forces in the CIA as the driving force behind this.  Dulles, Lansdale, Helms, Angleton, Phillips, Harvey, Morales,et al. "renegade?"  I guess that keeps the system in place.  Once we're rid of these unfortunate "renegades" we can get back our bearing and belief that all is right in this land of the free and the home of brave.

 

I don't for a second of time think those names mentioned above were the driving force behind the assassination.  I do think they were used, much as Oswald was used.  Much as the Mob was used.  Much as LBJ, Texas Oil, Hoover and the anti-Castro Cubans were used.  Those are the fingers in the hand of the glove.  But, whose is the hand?

 

This is where I feel we sometimes get so lost in the details of the assassination, we can't see the over-all scope of the crime.  We spend so much time tracking down the fingers in the glove, we never get around to looking directly into the face.  To do so may be too painful, too shattering in the belief of the world we've created for ourselves.  We may come to the place where all authority has to be thrown out the window.  Where the responsibility for the creation of something different is now required from each of us.

 

Fifty years.  We may not have fifty more.  Something's gotta give.


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#5 Charles Drago

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

Doesn't Bill end up pointing a firm finger at Harvey and the Morales crew as the instigating force in the assassination of JFK?  Doesn't Angleton, for example, get off with a "possible" pass,  as per involvement?

 

Over the years we've heard about "renegade" forces in the CIA as the driving force behind this.  Dulles, Lansdale, Helms, Angleton, Phillips, Harvey, Morales,et al. "renegade?"  I guess that keeps the system in place.  Once we're rid of these unfortunate "renegades" we can get back our bearing and belief that all is right in this land of the free and the home of brave.

 

I don't for a second of time think those names mentioned above were the driving force behind the assassination.  I do think they were used, much as Oswald was used.  Much as the Mob was used.  Much as LBJ, Texas Oil, Hoover and the anti-Castro Cubans were used.  Those are the fingers in the hand of the glove.  But, whose is the hand?

 

The caution in this cautionary tale is not to rush to judgment of Simpich's work.  I too give zero credence to the placement of the individuals cited above within the Sponsor level of the conspiracy.  Regardless of how thorough and otherwise insightful Simpich might have been elsewhere in his research (and like Stan, I have not yet read State Secret in its entirety), to accept so clearly sophistic a conclusion based solely on the author's reputation  is to fall victim to an argument from authority:

 

A says P about subject matter S.

A should be trusted about subject matter S.

Therefore, P is correct.

 

In this, my preliminary judgment, State Secret is just as likely an extraordinarily sophisticated piece of disinformation as it is a brilliant dissection of key elements of the conspiracy.  In the face of the disconnect between the seemingly high quality of Simpich's research and the ludicrous Sponsorship conclusion he draws from it, I find myself reminded of the following story:

 

A brilliant scientist taught a flea to fly.  "Fly, flea," ordered the scientist, and the flea flew.  "Fly, flea," and the flea flew.  Every time.  Then the scientist removed the wings from the flea.  "Fly, flea," ordered the scientist.  But the flea did not fly.

 

And so the brilliant scientist announced to his peers, "When one removes the wings from a flea, the flea becomes deaf."


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"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

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#6 Vasilis Vazakas

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:35 PM

Bill Simpich says that he is an a agnostic when it comes to  Angleton, Phillips and Goodpasture involvement in the conspiracy. That Morales outsmarted all of them, including all the CIA hierarchy to kill Kennedy and get away with it. I strongly disagree with his cocnclusions. It was Angleton who orchestrated the Mexico City charade and Phillips, Goodpasture doing the field work. Angleton was the man knowing all the elements of the Oswald legend from its inception, the person who bifurcated Oswald files and lowered the lights and he spied on the rest of the CIA, knowing Harvey's movements and actions for example.

The last person who tried to blame everything on Morales was Lamar Waldron.

The JFK assassination is such a complex case that includes many important elements apart Mexico that can help solve the case. At the very least Simpich study is not holistic but one dimensional. at the very least.


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#7 Greg Burnham

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:17 PM

 At the very least Simpich study is not holistic but one dimensional. at the very least.

 

Or perhaps, at the very most...

 

I am "agnostic" about his work thus far. I haven't had sufficient time to study it in depth. We can at least hope that his work might get some people thinking who were otherwise

asleep at the wheel, even if--in the end--they reject his thesis.


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"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#8 Bob Wilkerson

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:42 PM

After reading all the comments on your original post, Alan, I'll have to read State Secret.  A very interesting topic if it still eludes consensus.

 

Bob


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#9 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:00 PM

I read the preface and part of the first chapter.  Simpich mentions the eerie resemblance between Oswald and the other defector, Robert Webster.  They look more like brothers than LHO does with Robert Oswald.  A researcher told me that Robert Oswald never visited Marina or her daughters.  If he's supposed to be their uncle, what gives?  I wish we could get some of Robert's DNA and then compare that to one of LHO's daughters.  A sample could be gotten possibly in a restaurant.  A glass he drank out of or a napkin he used, etc.  I think back to A.J. Weberman and Garbology.  Can't someone get his household garbage?

 

Kathy C


"And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity. For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's futures. And we are all mortal." -- JFK

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#10 Tom Scully

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:05 PM

The caution in this cautionary tale is not to rush to judgment of Simpich's work.  I too give zero credence to the placement of the individuals cited above within the Sponsor level of the conspiracy.  Regardless of how thorough and otherwise insightful Simpich might have been elsewhere in his research (and like Stan, I have not yet read State Secret in its entirety), to accept so clearly sophistic a conclusion based solely on the author's reputation  is to fall victim to an argument from authority:

 

A says P about subject matter S.

A should be trusted about subject matter S.

Therefore, P is correct.

 

In this, my preliminary judgment, State Secret is just as likely an extraordinarily sophisticated piece of disinformation as it is a brilliant dissection of key elements of the conspiracy.  In the face of the disconnect between the seemingly high quality of Simpich's research and the ludicrous Sponsorship conclusion he draws from it, I find myself reminded of the following story:

 

A brilliant scientist taught a flea to fly.  "Fly, flea," ordered the scientist, and the flea flew.  "Fly, flea," and the flea flew.  Every time.  Then the scientist removed the wings from the flea.  "Fly, flea," ordered the scientist.  But the flea did not fly.

 

And so the brilliant scientist announced to his peers, "When one removes the wings from a flea, the flea becomes deaf."

 

I have problems with this. from Bill Simpich's first chapter.:

 

http://www.maryferre...Secret_Chapter1

 

....Rand president James H. Rand, III. Jim Rand was almost certainly not a CIA officer because he had a "201 number" – this number is the name of a biographical file that is used for persons of interest to the CIA. However, Rand was a well-respected CIA source, as seen in this analysis report cover sheet .....

 

 

http://research.arch...sion=henry rand

  1. National Archives Identifier: 2183903
    HMS Entry Number: A1 224
    Creator(s): Joint Chiefs of Staff. Office of Strategic Services. (06/13/1942 - 10/01/1945)

 

I thank Bill Simpich for drawing renewed attention to Robert E. Webster and his Rand Development employer. This information from Charles influenced me to sign up and post here today.:

 

......
But seriously, Jack. Where was "our" Robert Webster?

And are you aware that he claimed -- to at least one care-giver -- to have married Marina?

 

 

Bill Simpich described Marina's statement passed along to the FBI by Katherine Ford.: (As have authors Evica and DiEugnenio and probably others.)

 

http://www.maryferre...6&relPageId=265

 

KatherineFordMarinaExhibition1959.jpg

http://archive.org/s...11unit_djvu.txt
Report of the congressional committees investigating the Iran- Contra Affair :....
Washington, D. C. Wednesday, July 22, 1987 Deposition of ROY FURMARK, called for examination at the offices of the Senate Select Committee, Suite 901, the Hart Senate Office Building, at 10:00 a.m.
.....
AFTERNOON SESSION (1:00 p.m.) Whereupon, ROY FURMARK resiimed the stand and, having been previously duly sworn, was examined and testified further as follows: EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. KERR:
........
4 Q Let's shift gears a little bit. In terms of 5 Mr. Shaheen's relationship with William Casey, there was a 6 relationship? A Yes. 8 Q Can you describe what that relationship was? 9 A They were extremely close personal friends.- They 10 were both very much involved in Republican politics. They 11 were very much involved in the William J. Donovan Foundation 12 or the OSS, the Office of Strategic Services, which is an 13 all members who were in that service, and they would meet and I 14 have dinners and present awards out. They presented awards 15 to Thatcher, Willy Mountbatton, the three astronauts that 16 landed on the moon. They presented awards to President 17 Reagan, and so that was a focal point for them to get 18 together, I think, and in addition, they were involved with, 19 you know, doing legal work. He was in his own firm and then 20 he became a counsel to Rogers & Wells, and Jack Wells and 21 John, I think, were great pals as well as Casey, you know, 22 was involved in it, in New York City. Q Was Casey counsel to Shaheen during the time you were employed by Shaheen? A He did special things like when the company got into financial trouble, Newfoundland Refining Company, Casey and Shaheen and I went to Kuwait for about a week or 10 days trying to interest KNPC, Kuwait National Petroleum Company, owned by the government, to become a partner in Newfoundland Refinery, to invest funds to revamp the refinery so that we could use 100 percent Kuwaiti crude. .... He was an advisor when Shaheen had problems, and you know, but that was my longest involvement with Casey on that trip. Q Place that time for me, will you please? A 1975 or 1976, let's say. Q So this would be just before the time that you left? A Yes. Q Coming back, Shaheen had been in OSS at the same time Casey was in OSS and that's how they got to know one another? 2 A Yes . 3 Q Casey thereafter acted as legal counsel for 4 special projects for Shaheen; is that correct? 5 A Basically, yes. 6 Q Did Casey and Shaheen have business relationships 7 together to your knowledge? 8 A To my knowledge, I have never heard of any 9 business relationship. 10 Q So you don't know of any partnerships, joint 11 ventures, joint projects? 12 A No . I don't believe so. Shaheen just never did 13 things like that. 14 Q Shaheen, I believe, from a conversation you and I 15 had sometime ago, you characterized him as being a man who 16 didn't work well with partners?

 ShaheenMcCawRadio1955.jpg

17 A He wanted to do everything himself, you know, and 18 like, we got shares in the Newfoundland Refining Company, but 19 we had to sign an agreement that he could buy it back at any 20 time, so he wanted to be the -- he didn't want any, like you 21 say, he didn't want somebody to die and have the wife get a 22 lawyer and start poking around in his company. He didn't 1 mind the employees making lots of money, you know, as long as 2 he could control it. 3 Q With regard to the relationship between Shaheen 4 and Casey after you left, you were aware that they continued 5 to maintain a friendship? 6 A Oh, yes. 7 Q You were aware of that because of, among other 8 things, you saw them at the OSS dinners each year; correct? 9 A Sure. 10 Q The reason you were going to the dinners was not 11 because you were a member of the OSS -- 12 A No, I was invited to fill out the table, and it 13 was an a honor, really. I met lots of people because if it 14 was in New York, Shaheen would have a party back at his 15 apartment. I met the astronauts, lots of important people at 16 the apartment, so it was — 17 Q You were aware, though, that the relationship 18 between Casey and Shaheen continued, that they continued to 19 be friends? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Let's move on now to your relationship with 22 Casey. You got to know Casey best, I guess, on the trip to Kuwait; is that correct? A Well, I knew him all these years through Shaheen, you know, and you got to know more and more, and of course I J was- Shaheen 's heir apparent, okay, and so I would see Casey a lot and lots of times I wouldn't see him, you know. Q Let me move you into the period 1984, 1985. To ^ what extent were you in contact with Casey in '84-85? .....

 

(Roy Furmark's 1987 testimony excerpted above reminds me of the WC testimony of Nancy Perrin Rich, but she was

less vague. Furmark stated that Shaheen spent $16 million on his failed NYC newspaper start up,The New York Press.

IN 1972 Shaheen was quoted in the NY Times saying the purpose of the newspaper was to support president Nixon.)

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=elroy%20mcgaw%20site:news.google.com/newspapers&source=newspapers#q=%22around+to+O%27Brien%2C%22+Chotiner+said%2C+%22don%27t+worry+about+that.%22+rand&tbm=bks
The President's private eye: the journey of Detective Tony ... - Page 184
books.google.com/books?id=ToRLAAAAYAAJ
Tony Ulasewicz, ‎Stuart A. McKeever - 1990 - ‎Snippet view
if my existence as Nixon's private eye wasn't going to receive any support from the White House if my identity was disclosed.
But as Caulfield explained, Chotiner had files on people which
I had to take a look at so I'd know the type of information the President was looking for when I got the call to go to work.
When I met with Chotiner, the first thing he did was to hand me a file he had been keeping on the Rand Development Corporation and its officers. He made it clear that he kept exhaustive records on everyone who played the political power game. He told me that if, instead of Nixon, I had gone to work for the Democrats, I'd probably be meeting with Larry O'Brien instead of him. "We'll get around to O'Brien," Chotiner said, "don't worry about that." Chotiner said that O'Brien, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee in 1968, still had some dues to pay from the 1960 election that Nixon had lost to Jack Kennedy......

 

 

http://news.google.c...pg=6080,1110710

ShaheenMcGawNSC1961.jpg

 

http://newspaperarch...ily-gazette/...
"...while H James Rand of Cleveland, Ohio was best man."

ShaheenWedRandBestMan.jpg

 

ShaheenBruceMcCaw2003.jpg

Other considerations, of many..:

 

 


 

http://en.wikipedia....d_M._McClelland

Harold Mark McClelland (November 4, 1893 – November 19, 1965)[2] was a United States Air Force (USAF) major general who is considered the father of Air Force communications.[3]  ....

 

On August 30, 1949, McClelland was appointed director of communications-electronics in the United States Department of Defense for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, with station at Washington, D.C.[2]

In 1951, a sharp increase in diplomatic tensions was seen by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) as the precursor to war. A greater volume of communications required a stronger system, and CIA Director Walter Bedell Smith hired McClelland as chief of CIA communications, a position known as "Assistant Director, Communications", on September 10, 1951.[4] There, McClelland oversaw the technical development and implementation of a secure global communications system.[4] He served the CIA for 14 years until his death in Washington, D.C. in 1965.[19] ....

 

 

 

 

Lt. Col. J. Elroy Mccaw : "Elroy served at Army Air Forces Headquarters in the Pentagon as Executive Officer and Special Assistant to General (Harold M.) McClelland, head of USAAF communications. He was also McClelland's liaison to OSS.."

Mccaw became chairman of Rand Development in 1968.

 

 


 

http://community.sea...0404&slug=1694 

 

 

Money From Thin Air April 4, 1993

 

...World War II disrupted Elroy's expansion plans, but it served to enhance the air of mystery about him. He served in the old Army Air Corps in intelligence, working mainly with radio systems.

Exactly what he did remains murky even to family and close friends. ....

 

 

 

(Continued from text in quote box directly above.)
One story has him making a secret journey to Russia to install a weather station to assist British pilots. Many suspected that Elroy for many years stayed active in intelligence work as an operative for the CIA.

 

In 1965, Nixon was in Moscow on an unplanned trip, he received a Soviet visa in Helsinki in just three hours. He was accompanied by and representing John M. Shaheen.

 

Shaheen's sister is married since the 1940's to broadcast journalist Hugh Downs. Shaheen honeymooned at Marathon Key, FL in 1951 with Henry J. Rand and Dan T. Moore. Moore's sister was Luvie Moore Abell Pearson, wife of syndicated columnist Drew Pearson. They all cameto Florida at the invitation of their friend, Dr. George W. Crile, Jr., Skull & Bones, 1928. Crile's son George III worked for Pearson and Anderson and then for 31 years, CBS News and 60 Minutes.

 

http://www.maryferre...720&relPageId=2

WebsterRandMoore1960.jpg

 

More on George H.Bookbinder,mentioned in the CIA doc image above.:

http://reopenkennedy...y-the-same#8504

 

Ronald Reagan and John M. Shaheen were both born in Tampico, IL, pop. 750.

 

I would not have put the time in on this if not for this.:
 

 

http://consortiumnew...tober-surprise/

 

ShaheenCaseyMadridParry.jpg

The document revealing White House knowledge of Casey’s Madrid trip was among records released to me by the archivists at the George H.W. Bush library in College Station, Texas. The U.S. Embassy’s confirmation of Casey’s trip was passed along by State Department legal adviser Edwin D. Williamson to Associate White House Counsel Chester Paul Beach Jr. in early November 1991, just as the October Surprise inquiry was taking shape......

 

 


 

 

http://www.consortiu...004/110204.html

by Morgan Strong  November 2, 2004

 

......Longtime Arafat confidant Bassam Abu Sharif said that in mid-1980, he met in Paris with John Shaheen, a friend to both Ronald Reagan and Reagan’s campaign chief, William J. Casey. Abu Sharif told me that Shaheen, a former U.S. intelligence officer of Lebanese origin, extended a Republican offer of improved U.S. relations with the PLO if the Arafat-led organization would assist in persuading the Iranians to delay the hostage release until after the November 1980 elections.

 

Shaheen, who died in 1985, has long been a central figure in the so-called "October Surprise" case, allegations that Republicans sabotaged Carter’s hostage negotiations as a way to ensure the 1980 election of Reagan as president and George H.W. Bush as vice president. Though Abu Sharif and Arafat have previously discussed the Republican overture, they had refused to identify the Republican intermediary until now.....

 

 

Roy Furmark's name is mentioned literally countless times in Robert Gates failed February,1987 Senate, DCI confirmation hearing. Shaheen is never spoken of.:

 


https://www.google.c...eliable person"

 

NOMINATION OF ROBERT M. GATES

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 17 AND WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 1987

.....Senator COHEN. Well, when your General Counsel made the investigation, who did the General Counsel talk to? Mr. GATES. I don't know. He simply told me when I got back from being out of the country that he had looked into it and as far as he could determine there were no problems legally from the Agency's standpoint. Let me go back again to make the point that even with the call from Furmark and Allen's analysis—

 

Mr. ELLIFF. IS Furmark a reliable person?

 

Mr. GATES. I don't know him. I can't answer that question. We felt we had some fragments. This was the first thing that we had ever seen that suggested there might have been some possibility of a diversion. It was very shaky stuff. What you had was an analytical judgment by Allen with no concrete evidence, and as I point out again in this seven or eight-page memorandum, his concern about this is expressed in one sentence and it doesn t even mention the contras, but simply the possibility of a diversion to other U.S. projects. And we had this call from Furmark, that the Director took from Furmark. It was at that point that we told Allen to lay all this out in a piece of paper that we then passed to Poindexter when we saw it on paper.

 



#11 Greg Burnham

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

Welcome to the Forum, Tom.

 

I suggest (not require) that when you are relying upon "copy and paste" interspersed with your own comments that you shorten the length of your posts on this forum.

 

In all honesty you will find that more people will actually bother to read a briefer post than one that is this choppy. It becomes ambiguous and difficult to separate some

of your comments from those of your sources. Again, this is only a suggestion.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#12 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:26 AM

Vasilis, be the daily briefer for some president or prime minister.  Your summation is concise and a platform for action.

 

Bill Simpich says that he is an a agnostic when it comes to  Angleton, Phillips and Goodpasture involvement in the conspiracy. That Morales outsmarted all of them, including all the CIA hierarchy to kill Kennedy and get away with it. I strongly disagree with his cocnclusions. It was Angleton who orchestrated the Mexico City charade and Phillips, Goodpasture doing the field work. Angleton was the man knowing all the elements of the Oswald legend from its inception, the person who bifurcated Oswald files and lowered the lights and he spied on the rest of the CIA, knowing Harvey's movements and actions for example.

The last person who tried to blame everything on Morales was Lamar Waldron.

The JFK assassination is such a complex case that includes many important elements apart Mexico that can help solve the case. At the very least Simpich study is not holistic but one dimensional. at the very least.

 

Yes, I found his suggestion that Angleton was hornswoggled almost a coffee up the nose moment

 

Angleton pretended to doubt Nosenko.  He just found him inconvenient vis-a-vis the Red virus

 

Your mention of Waldron is a nail well-hit.  Detail upon detail.  Back up; go forward, and the rut is deepened.  Salt some more names.

 

Whiplash from nodding off

 

Burying in detail is no substitute for clarity.

 

Killing Kennedy was a grand opus created for sponsors unseen by high facilitators of decades-long experience at the craft of deniable operations

 

Surely Newman 2008 made Angleton's authorship clear; you cite Phillips and Goodpasture.

 

Morales didn't concoct the plot from scratch staples in the pantry but by the order hung on the clip with a ring of the bell

 

If he was so hot why the stomach problems and the VIPs around the New Mexico grave; he was a facilitator, an auxiliary cog, not the engine or even the flywheel let alone the driver or owner et cetera

 

Simpich might've been content to accumulate detail through research rather than speculate sponsorship

 

 



#13 Gordon Gray

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:29 AM

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the Harvey and Morales crew were instigating forces. But had the Sponsors decided the assassination of JFK was bad for business, it never would have gotten off the ground. Most likely IMO the plot originated at a lower level, and was  permitted to continue, facilitated by Dulles, Lansdale, Helms, Angleton et.al., at the behest of those who may not be named. 



#14 Greg Burnham

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

And the tail wags the dog, that wags the Animal Control Department, that wags the County Sheriff's Department, that wags the Mayor's Office, that wags the Governor, that wags the height of absurdity.


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#15 Charles Drago

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:50 PM

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the Harvey and Morales crew were instigating forces. But had the Sponsors decided the assassination of JFK was bad for business, it never would have gotten off the ground. Most likely IMO the plot originated at a lower level, and was  permitted to continue, facilitated by Dulles, Lansdale, Helms, Angleton et.al., at the behest of those who may not be named. 

 

Any number of plots were in various stages of development.  The sophistication of the final iteration speaks to authorship of the sort unavailable or at least non-responsive to the likes of Harvey and Morales.

 

By definition -- and not to become mired in semantics -- the Sponsors authorized the operation, the designers of which in turn likely expropriated (because of their intrinsic value and/or the opportunity they represented to finger False Sponsors) tactics from half-baked plans already being formulated by impotent fist-shakers.

 

Think of the Sponsors as the home(land)owners who, to build the mansion of many rooms, retained the services of the highest level Facilitators/Architects, who created designs and blueprints and in turn hired mid- and low-level Facilitators/General Contractors and Skilled Labor to make it all materialize.


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"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#16 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 03:48 AM

Gordon describes a Let It Happen event.

 

Greg finds a low-level originatorship (sponsorship) absurd.

 

Charles posits the landowner's initiative executed by tenants of the mansion.

 

I sense an organic rejection of Kennedy in the manner of a body's antibodies, the Douglass/Merton Unspeakable.

 

This is an old organism which survives the death of any individual cell or organ.

 

Hence an LBJ may fall to the ground as a pine cone or an apple.

 

The mighty tree arises from a soil composted of the dead of just wars and the pacified tribes.

 

The dove alights, met by the sticky sap of a Hoover; the swarm of marauding starlings of an Op 40.

 

As though one really couldn't say this is Central Intelligence Agency, that is Pentagon, over there the Federal Reserve, and if you look up you'll see United Fruit and Freeport Sulfur sittin' in the tree.

 

Surely David Rockefeller had had his fill.  As had the clients of Allen Dulles.  The Lyman Lemnitzers. 

 

This was an organism/organization which had dealt with obstacles in Guatemala, Iran; dealt with Forrestal's resistance to defense spending.

 

Dealt with Patton's insistence on finishing the Cold War by going through the Senate and White House to Moscow.

 

A newcomer to the Oval Office could be sold an exploding cigar for the mother of all blowback.

 

Follow it up with a missile crisis CIA's U-2s should've/must've discovered long before it went critical.

 

Let the subject walk far out on the limb in June at American University, create the US Treasury Note

 

Then the miasma closes about him and hey presto NSAM 273 the bridge to the war for Brown & Root & Smack

 

Angleton created the patsy; Harvey was a proven creator and master of special teams and Morales was a star in his stable

 

It wasn't LBJ as Hunt lied, nor the mob as Waldron & Cauldron suggest, or the KGB as Fat Frank croaked, or Israel as Piper piped

 

It was men we have not named nor are likely to name passing the word with a wink over a drink

 

to men who knew which phones to pick up, which elliptic phrases to utter in the proper shell-like ears

 

who marshalled the shooters

 

all with tunnel vision and no curiosity

 

Many responded favorably.  Moynihan wrote, "There stood Bundy, icy."  Harvey barked at his secretary for weeping.

 

Clay Shaw went on with his luncheon preparations.

 

Nixon and Bush were several places with Shrodinger's Cat

 

Elmer Moore would recall "a traitor"

 

Dulles would scoff, "That little Kennedy. . .he thought he was a god."

 

Morales would have a bad stomach and go into a hole along with so many.

 

Harvey and Roselli close together.

 

DeMohrenschildt and Nicoletti on the same day.

 

Guy Banister and CD Jackson quite soon

 

William Sullivan later, with five other feebs

 

The tide washes the beach

 

Today the shrieking fairies of media and the carping harpies of academe insist it was a lone gunman with a popgun and magic beans

 

Ignorance is strength

 

We investigate where angels fear to tread

 

Steel men and oil men and bankers to boot

 

Army men, Navy men and birdmen in the blue

 

Banana planters and chopper cobblers and Agent Orange's mother

 

The spooks and the statesmen circled the cradle to smother

 

the birth of (the New Frontier)

 

We're not having Third World nationalism, or detente, or demarche

 

Peace is not profitable

 

The Borg does not negotiate

 

The president may pretend; the president may not presume to govern



#17 Charles Drago

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:09 PM

Recently on another JFK site, Simpich posted the following:

 

"I think a strong historical case is being made ... that David Morales led the assassination of JFK.   I also think the evidence will continue to mount during this decade."

 

The imprecision of this language -- "led the assassination" -- is as deplorable and indefensible as the conclusion it would communicate.

 

Simpich's entire body of work is thus rendered suspect.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#18 Vasilis Vazakas

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:06 AM

The Almighty, Supreme, Omniscient, Omnipotent Morales, the James Moriarty of the CIA, the greatest criminal mind of the Intelligence Services.

Pity CIA did not have a Sherlock to stop him. Maybe, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was the Ultimate Sponsor.



#19 Tom Scully

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:27 AM

Welcome to the Forum, Tom.

 

I suggest (not require) that when you are relying upon "copy and paste" interspersed with your own comments that you shorten the length of your posts on this forum.

 

In all honesty you will find that more people will actually bother to read a briefer post than one that is this choppy. It becomes ambiguous and difficult to separate some

of your comments from those of your sources. Again, this is only a suggestion.

 

Pardon me, Greg. I hope more people will actually bother.  My experience is that most focus on images. I wish more people contributed new information or were interested in pursuing discovery of it.

 

Bill Simpich donated a number of chapters of his book to the public. Are those who save up their research and finally package it and sell it seemingly more genuine than those who donate what they uncover?

 

No matter what you do, or how you do it, you can expect to be criticized or distrusted. You have to stick your neck out to share anything under your own name. The "community" is not known for prioritizing accuracy above a long list of more important priorities. If I could stop, I would, but for the coincidences.
 

 

http://www.nytimes.c...dies-at-82.html

By LEE A. DANIELS
Published: May 13, 1992M
Maitland A. Edey, a former editor in chief of Time-Life Books and a science writer and conservationist, died on May 9 at Martha's Vineyard Hospital in Vineyard Haven, Mass. He was 82 years old.

Mr. Edey, a Vineyard Haven resident, died of a brain hemorrhage, said his wife, Helen Kellogg Edey.

Mr. Edey, a native of New York and a 1932 graduate of Princeton, indulged his interest in history and the environment by writing numerous articles and 11 books.....

.....Mr. Edey, who had worked as an editorial assistant at various New York publishing houses before World War II, joined Life magazine in 1945. He served as a major with the intelligence branch of the Air Force during the war. He resigned from Life as an assistant managing editor in 1956 to do freelance writing.....

....In 1960 he was named editor of Time-Life Books and worked there for the next 12 years, the last six as editor in chief.

He retired from Time-Life in 1972 and returned to freelance writing. Six of his eleven books were written during the 1970's and 1980's....

.....He is survived by his wife and four children, Maitland A. Edey Jr. of Vineyard Haven, Mass.;.....

 

http://www.cruisingw...peter-duff-dies

 Prodigious Boatbuilder Peter Duff Dies Edey & Duff founder helped build classics such as the Stone Horse.

"At Sea" from our September 4, 2008, CW Reckonings by Kitty Martin

 

Word was received this week that sailor and boatbuilder Peter Duff, co-founder of Edey & Duff of Mattapoisett, Massachusetts, died from complications of Parkinson's disease on August 30. For many years, starting in 1968, he and his partner, Mait Edey, were known for building such classics as the Stone Horse, Doughdish, Dovekie, and Shearwater.

Peter was born in 1936 and graduated from Tufts University in 1958 with a degree in nuclear physics. He worked for a number of companies, including Texas Instruments Metals and Controls, Fisher Engineering, Standard-Thomson, and Edson Marine, before turning to fulltime boatbuilding.

Duff and Edey built their first cruising sailboat, the Sam Crocker-designed Stone Horse, in Duff's living room and backyard herb garden. Edey & Duff was sold in 1987, but it carries on the co-founders' philosophy of building one boat at a time, using the best materials, the finest craftsmanship, and paying close attention to detail......

 

 

http://boatinglocal....uff-closes.html

August 29, 2010: The venerable boatyard founded in 1968 by Mait Edey and Peter Duff has ceased operations. The small but respected yard, located at the end of quiet Aucoot Road on the border of Mattapoisett and Marion in southeastern Massachusetts, was unable to...

 

 

Small boat builder = small world? Large MIC and many Intelligence branches, including a branch fronting as large, respected publisher of current events magazines and other mass distribution print media. Or...Webster knew fiberglass, and Duff & Edey built fiberglass boats. New Bedford is not that far from Ohio or PA, or maybe his second wife Shirley is a New Bedford native. Case closed, nothing to see here.

 

http://www.southcoas...EWS03/311149995

NEW BEDFORD -- Private services will be held for Robert Webster, 71, who died Thursday, Nov. 11, 1999, after a long illness. He was the husband of Shirley (Miller) Webster and son of the late Charles Edward and Elizabeth (Bush) Webster.

He died at The Oaks.

He was born in Tiffan, Ohio, and had lived in the New Bedford area since the early 1980s.

He was employed by Edey & Duff of as a boat builder until he retired.

Mr. Webster was a member of the Toastmasters Club and was a Navy veteran.

Survivors include his widow; three sons, ....; a daughter, ....... and a granddaughter.

 

 

 

http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=80460185

Robert Edward Webster Oct. 23, 1928 -Nov. 11, 1999 Pine Grove Cemetery New Bedford Bristol County Massachusetts, USA



#20 Greg Burnham

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:13 AM

Huh???   :wacko:


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Oswald, Mexico City, Angleton, JMWAVE, Morales, Harvey, Mole hunt, CIA, Goodpasture, Moskalev

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