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#21 Greg Burnham

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:22 PM

Stan and Charles. Oh I typed this whole thing and lost it.

 

A quick note about retrieving text if you fail to post it before some accident occurs, such as, inadvertently going back a page in your browser's history before posting the text you typed, etc. -- First, it is always advisable to write your post in a program, such as, WORD  --  prior to attempting to post it -- particularly if it is a long post that you are going to spend a lot of time writing. That way even if you have a problem posting it you have your work saved locally on your computer. But, if you didn't write and save it in a program on your hard drive beforehand and you have a problem while trying to post it, then the following should help you to retrieve it.

 

The forum software automatically saves a draft copy of what you write every minute or so. If something happens to what you are writing prior to your having posted it, don't panic, simply navigate backwards (or forward) to the text box page that contained the text that you were writing. If you're lucky the text might still show when you arrive back there. If not, simply click anywhere inside the text box with your mouse cursor. On the left hand side of the text box at the bottom you will see grey type within the border of the text box that will say something like: "Last auto saved: 3:15:55 PM PDT" (without the quotation marks). Place your mouse cursor over that text and you will see that it is clickable. When you click on it a pop up box will appear and there you will see all of your text since the last time that it was saved by the software. Simply press "Restore" and the text will instantly be back and nothing is lost (from the last time it was auto saved). 


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#22 Michael Calder

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

Stan and Charles. Having read the complete LAPD investigation files of the RFK murder and then the complete FBI files, the suspect is a ringer for Sirhan. That much is certain. Back then if you wanted a job in the kitchen of the major LA hotels you had to go first to the union. The union would then send you back to the hotel for hiring. The union man in charge of hiring told the LAPD that Sirhan Sirhan tried to get a job in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel a week or two before the murder. One reason he remembered was because of Sirhan's obnoxious behavior. There is nothing in the investigation files indicating Sirhan ever tried getting a job at the hotel. So either Sirhan did try and get job there or the person the union man interviewed and declined to hire is a very close look a like. A campaign worker in the Azuza CA, campaign headquarters says Sirhan came into the building inquiring about the Kennedy campaign. Azuza is down the road from Pasadena, CA, where Sirhan lived. On her third interview she mentions the bad case of acne Sirhan had. I called Munir, Sirhan's brother, and asked if Sirhan ever had acne. Munir told me none of the brothers had acne as they are middle eastern. The night of the murder at the hotel in the Embassy Room a woman was charmed by "Sirhan" She picked out his photo. But she also said "Sirhan" had an old case of acne and was a little lighter skinned than the Sirhan showed to her by the LAPD. 11:30 p.m., thirty minutes before RFK came down for his speech, a young woman is walking through the pantry. She notices a young man leaning casually against a wall. He is dressed in the button up dress shirt as the kitchen help and assumed he was kitchen help. She said to him. "Don't work to hard." He smiled. She insisted he was Sirhan. In my opinion, this will be the man who is shooting RFK from behind as the real Sirhan is coming from the front. Is that enough detail for you Charles? Apparently the shooter did get placed in the kitchen as a worker and the reason was so he wouldn't be kicked out the night of the murder. It also afforded him time to rehearse the shooting in the week leading up to it. And possibly recruit a couple of Mexican bus boys as co conspirators. Thane Cesar is there to insure Sirhan's admittance into the pantry. If Sirhan is prevented from entering the pantry there is no fall guy. Thane Cesar was placed guarding the door to the pantry from the Embassy Room entrance at 11:30 p.m. by the director of security for the hotel. I have an interview report from a girl who was there that Sirhan was removed from the pantry earlier at the request of a campaign worker to the security guard, but when Sirhan reentered the pantry, when the worker once again requested Sirhan's removal, the security guard refused saying he had given Sirhan permission to be there. The timing is such that the security guard would have been Thane Cesar. Is that detail enough for you Charles? Cesar accompanies RFK into the pantry trying to hold onto to Kennedy's arm in order to hold Kennedy in place while being shot. The shooter fired right over and behind Cesar into the back of RFK's head and twice more to his back. Cesar hit the deck upon hearing the shots which is what he was probably told to do before hand so as not to get shot himself. The site for the murder has been picked by CIA as well as the method. But none of it matters if you can't bring Kennedy into the kill zone. That's where CIA needs some assistance. The job of the advance men is to move the candidate around. Everywhere. At the airport, the hotel, into and out of buildings for speeches, which hotel room to stay at, everything considering a candidate's movements. Jerry Bruno is the head advance man for the RFK campaign. CIA is depending on Bruno to bring their victim to them. CIA cannot bring in Sirhan, the polka dot dress girl, the real shooter and a CIA team to make sure he escapes the hotel, have this team waiting, unless certain the target is on his way to them. The advance men will insure this. So Jerry Bruno was brought on board by CIA. For added measure, CIA got their own deep cover agent in the campaign and to be there the night of the murder. This is Gary Dotterman. Hired by Jerry Bruno just days before the murder, Dotterman arrives in Los Angeles that weekend. Unknown what function he did on the last day of campaigning, Monday, but he has been Introduced by Bruno to RFK as an advance man. Tuesday night at midnight I've seen video of this man, Dotterman, greeting RFK at the foot of the elevators as Kennedy is coming down to give his victory speech. The entourage winds its way through the kitchen. Bill Barry, Kennedy's security man and ex FBI agent leads Kennedy along with Karl Uecker, the maitred'. While on stage I see this Dotterman conferring with Barry just as Kennedy is finishing his speech. They must be speaking of which way to take Kennedy off the stage. But instead of having RFK delivered to Bill Barry, Dotterman tells Karl to grab Kennedy and bring him through the curtain and Dotterman is even saying "This way Senator" as he is holding open the back curtain. As Kennedy exits the curtain he is separated from all of his security persons including Barry, Rosie Greer and Rafer Johnson. This is premeditated. Enough detail for you Charles? If Sirhan is a "Manchurian Candidate" then who created him? At UC Berkeley, while reading the complete 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits for the Warren Commission, I also read many other government documents. One of them was Senate Hearings on MKULTRA. CIA had been working on a Manchurian candidate since 1954. The father of Mkultra is Richard Helms. He originated the study and sheparded it along while Assistant Deputy Director of Plans and later Deputy Director of Plans starting in 1962. In December of 1963, after having murdered President Kennedy, my analysis and later book, JFK VS. CIA, Helms argued against the inspector general for CIA who recommended closing down mkultra. Helms said that CIA now had drugs and other methods for creating amnesia for events during and prior a person's action. As you know Sirhan has no memory of shooting RFK. Since Richard Helms is the father of mkultra and mkultra is being used on Sirhan to turn him into a Manchurian candidate, then Helms is murdering Robert Kennedy in 1968. Richard Helms was Director of Central Intelligence in 1968. He was Deputy Director of Plans in 1963 and keeping all the deep secrets of what the agency was up to in 1963 from his boss, the director of CIA per senate hearings of the 1970s which I've also read. Is that enough detail for you Charles? Now you know who I am. Let's find out who you are.

#23 Charles Drago

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:33 PM

Michael,

 

My responses are in red.

____________________________________

 

Stan and Charles. Having read the complete LAPD investigation files of the RFK murder and then the complete FBI files, the suspect is a ringer for Sirhan. That much is certain. Back then if you wanted a job in the kitchen of the major LA hotels you had to go first to the union. The union would then send you back to the hotel for hiring. The union man in charge of hiring told the LAPD that Sirhan Sirhan tried to get a job in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel a week or two before the murder. One reason he remembered was because of Sirhan's obnoxious behavior. There is nothing in the investigation files indicating Sirhan ever tried getting a job at the hotel. So either Sirhan did try and get job there or the person the union man interviewed and declined to hire is a very close look a like. A campaign worker in the Azuza CA, campaign headquarters says Sirhan came into the building inquiring about the Kennedy campaign. Azuza is down the road from Pasadena, CA, where Sirhan lived. On her third interview she mentions the bad case of acne Sirhan had. I called Munir, Sirhan's brother, and asked if Sirhan ever had acne. Munir told me none of the brothers had acne as they are middle eastern. The night of the murder at the hotel in the Embassy Room a woman was charmed by "Sirhan" She picked out his photo. But she also said "Sirhan" had an old case of acne and was a little lighter skinned than the Sirhan showed to her by the LAPD. 11:30 p.m., thirty minutes before RFK came down for his speech, a young woman is walking through the pantry. She notices a young man leaning casually against a wall. He is dressed in the button up dress shirt as the kitchen help and assumed he was kitchen help. She said to him. "Don't work to hard." He smiled. She insisted he was Sirhan. In my opinion, this will be the man who is shooting RFK from behind as the real Sirhan is coming from the front. Is that enough detail for you Charles?

 

Yes and no.  As the progenitor of the "Doppelganger Gambit" hypothesis in which I enumerate and propose multiple functions for the multiple instances of "doubles" (or "triples," or "quadruples" ...) in intel operations in general and the Kennedy hits in particular, I find your "two Sirhan" analysis to be spot-on.

 

By the same token, I find your "opinion" regarding the use of the Sirhan doppelganger as a shooter to be intriguing but problematic and ultimately unconvincing.  Placing doubles within immediate proximity of each other during the execution phase of the conspiracy in question presents -- appropriately enough -- as a double-edged sword. Two of the objectives of the Doppelganger Gambit as I envision it are to sow confusion (or, as I prefer, cognitive dissonance) among pre-hit witnesses and generate conflicting testimonies that mislead and ultimately discourage investigators.  But to my knowledge, there aren't any witnesses who place Sirhan -- either one of them -- behind RFK.  

 

After all, isn't the very foundation of the finding of conspiracy in this case the oft-repeated and all but universally acknowledged fact that no one ever saw Sirhan to the rear of his target?

 

And wouldn't reports of seeing multiple Sirhans during the shooting give away the game?

 

There would have been far more effective operational uses of such a doppelganger at The Ambassador that night.

 

So if you have more than an opinion to offer on this matter, please do so.  In detail, if you will.

 

 

Apparently the shooter did get placed in the kitchen as a worker and the reason was so he wouldn't be kicked out the night of the murder. It also afforded him time to rehearse the shooting in the week leading up to it. And possibly recruit a couple of Mexican bus boys as co conspirators.

 

Do we have any on-the-record witnesses who report such a rehearsal?  How would this rehearsal be structured?  Can you point to any conspiratorial actions by "a couple of Mexican bus boys"?

 

To this writer of dramatic fiction, you seem to be offering elements of a "pitch" for a screenplay -- one that would compel industry interest.  But there's no hard scholarship evident to support these suppositions as anything else.  And by the way, I am a passionate proponent of the application of creative thinking and artistic sensibility to the study of historical events.  But when doing so we must be disciplined in finding balance and context for such material.

 

 

Thane Cesar is there to insure Sirhan's admittance into the pantry. If Sirhan is prevented from entering the pantry there is no fall guy. Thane Cesar was placed guarding the door to the pantry from the Embassy Room entrance at 11:30 p.m. by the director of security for the hotel.

 

Someone on the scene must have been charged with the responsibilities you ascribe to Cesar.  This makes sense to me.  But this functionary need not have been Cesar, whose primary role in the operation (at least within my own hypothesis) was to serve as a second patsy.  If such were the case, it would not be unprecedented.  

 

 

I have an interview report from a girl who was there that Sirhan was removed from the pantry earlier at the request of a campaign worker to the security guard, but when Sirhan reentered the pantry, when the worker once again requested Sirhan's removal, the security guard refused saying he had given Sirhan permission to be there. The timing is such that the security guard would have been Thane Cesar. Is that detail enough for you Charles?

 

Yes and no.  

 

 

Cesar accompanies RFK into the pantry trying to hold onto to Kennedy's arm in order to hold Kennedy in place while being shot. The shooter fired right over and behind Cesar into the back of RFK's head and twice more to his back. Cesar hit the deck upon hearing the shots which is what he was probably told to do before hand so as not to get shot himself.

 

Pure if compelling supposition with which I have but one problem -- as long as it is presented as, if you will, a highly educated guess.  

 

Said problem is the notion of the shooter firing "right over and behind Cesar."  Why wasn't so obvious a posture noted by witnesses?  How long would the assassin's reach have to be in your scenario in order to place the weapon at near-contact range to RFK's head?  

 

Is Reed Richards one of your suspects?

 

Not nearly enough detail here, Michael.

 

 

The site for the murder has been picked by CIA as well as the method.

 

I simply will not entertain your "CIA"-did-it sermon until you address the questions and issues I've previously raised.  Where do you place "CIA" in the conspiracy model presenting Sponsors, Facilitators, and Mechanics?   

 

Your use of language remains fatally vague.  "CIA" is an institution.  Who within it do you claim killed JFK?  Was "POTUS Assassination" an agenda item on a secret meeting agenda from the DCI?  I mean no disrespect, but it is very difficult to lend credence to your work in its entirety when this sort of intellectual sloppiness -- or, to keep with the theme of this exchange, lack of detail -- recurs with such frequency.

 

 

But none of it matters if you can't bring Kennedy into the kill zone. That's where CIA needs some assistance.

 

Simplistic speculation unsupported by scholarship, logic, or fact.  See above.

 

 

The job of the advance men is to move the candidate around. Everywhere. At the airport, the hotel, into and out of buildings for speeches, which hotel room to stay at, everything considering a candidate's movements. Jerry Bruno is the head advance man for the RFK campaign. CIA is depending on Bruno to bring their victim to them. CIA cannot bring in Sirhan, the polka dot dress girl, the real shooter and a CIA team to make sure he escapes the hotel, have this team waiting, unless certain the target is on his way to them. The advance men will insure this. So Jerry Bruno was brought on board by CIA. For added measure, CIA got their own deep cover agent in the campaign and to be there the night of the murder. This is Gary Dotterman.

 

Here is the perfect example of how your "CIA"-did-it crusade casts serious doubt on the scholarship and reasoning behind the rest of your conclusions.  As a matter of fact I share your suspicions regarding Bruno.  As a seasoned and respected analyst of deep political phenomena, I am capable of separating your wheat from your chaff.  But as such, I am in the tiny minority of honorable JFK assassination researchers.

 

 

Hired by Jerry Bruno just days before the murder, Dotterman arrives in Los Angeles that weekend. Unknown what function he did on the last day of campaigning, Monday, but he has been Introduced by Bruno to RFK as an advance man. Tuesday night at midnight I've seen video of this man, Dotterman, greeting RFK at the foot of the elevators as Kennedy is coming down to give his victory speech. The entourage winds its way through the kitchen. Bill Barry, Kennedy's security man and ex FBI agent leads Kennedy along with Karl Uecker, the maitred'. While on stage I see this Dotterman conferring with Barry just as Kennedy is finishing his speech. They must be speaking of which way to take Kennedy off the stage.

 

"They must be ... "  Pure supposition stated with unwarranted certainty -- and thus an otherwise compelling analysis is severely undermined.

 

 

But instead of having RFK delivered to Bill Barry, Dotterman tells Karl to grab Kennedy and bring him through the curtain and Dotterman is even saying "This way Senator" as he is holding open the back curtain. As Kennedy exits the curtain he is separated from all of his security persons including Barry, Rosie Greer and Rafer Johnson. This is premeditated. Enough detail for you Charles? If Sirhan is a "Manchurian Candidate" then who created him? At UC Berkeley, while reading the complete 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits for the Warren Commission, I also read many other government documents. One of them was Senate Hearings on MKULTRA. CIA had been working on a Manchurian candidate since 1954. The father of Mkultra is Richard Helms. He originated the study and sheparded it along while Assistant Deputy Director of Plans and later Deputy Director of Plans starting in 1962. In December of 1963, after having murdered President Kennedy, my analysis and later book, JFK VS. CIA, Helms argued against the inspector general for CIA who recommended closing down mkultra. Helms said that CIA now had drugs and other methods for creating amnesia for events during and prior a person's action. As you know Sirhan has no memory of shooting RFK. Since Richard Helms is the father of mkultra and mkultra is being used on Sirhan to turn him into a Manchurian candidate, then Helms is murdering Robert Kennedy in 1968. Richard Helms was Director of Central Intelligence in 1968. He was Deputy Director of Plans in 1963 and keeping all the deep secrets of what the agency was up to in 1963 from his boss, the director of CIA per senate hearings of the 1970s which I've also read. Is that enough detail for you Charles?

 

Not even close.

 

Unless, of course, you're prepared to define "CIA" as you use the term AND place "CIA" with the Evica-Drago Conspiracy Model -- or any other valid paradigm of its kind.

 

I ask you again, sir:  "CIA" as Sponsor?  "CIA" as Facilitator?  "CIA as Mechanic?

 

I ask you again, sir:  What the hell do you mean by "CIA"???

 

I value much of your work -- I daresay the majority of it.  It is the religious fervor that you bring to your overly broad and simplistic indictment of "CIA" that causes your self-inflicted wounds.

 

Is that enough detail for you, Michael?


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#24 Michael Calder

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:15 PM

When I post something it can only be a summary and conclusion on my part. To do what you require needs a book written. That book on RFK will be forthcoming. For anything on the JFK murder I've answered  the why, who and how  in "JFK VS. CIA." Until then all I can do is present a skeleton outline. Not as satisfying as a book nor as detailed as a prosecution but all that I can offer at this time. You seem to be an American version of Mel Ayton. Interesting. LAPD destroyed a thousand pages of documents but kept 40,000 pages. What could have been in those thousand  destroyed pages that was different than in the 40,000 kept pages of documents. LAPD kept 1,500 photographs but destroyed a thousand photos. Why those photos? Perhaps the "hard" evidence you are seeking is in those destroyed documents. Even so, with what remained it was possible to put together the murder of RFK. But not know and not here. But I will obliged you when the time comes.   



#25 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 06:18 PM

13_01170116.jpg?w=900

 

Between Robert F Kennedy and Sign My Poster Michael Wayne is Gary Wayne Dotterman DOB 6-11-44 Tulsa OK, Jerry Bruno's man who drove from Tulsa to LA 5-25/5-27-68, booked a room at the Ambassador 5-27-68 to 6-6-68.

 

UnknownAide1.JPG

 

At the right back of the above photo Dotterman is the man in the shadow second from right looking at RFK.  He was the one who directed Uecker to bring the candidate out as he raises the curtain and says, "This way, Senator."

 

In Richard Kinzer, The Brothers, Dulles is approached by Helms to begin the MKULTRA project.  Sirhan was a programmed patsy.  At first he had no memory of his actions, which were triggered by the Polka-Dot Dress Girl.

 

The importance of that person is shown in LAPD AID (CIA front) Detective Hank Hernandez bullying of Sandy Serrano--such abuse she is still not ready to talk more to this day. 

 

Cesar was doubly significant:  he insured Sirhan was in place, and, he insured RFK was in place.

 

Noguchi clarified trajectory and proximity.

 

Who was in that position?

 

 



#26 Charles Drago

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 07:02 PM

You seem to be an American version of Mel Ayton. Interesting. 

 

Not "interesting"  Simply ignorant and desperate.

 

Your response to challenge is to retreat while shooting at the messenger.

 

Mel Ayton and his ilk count on you and yours to produce shoddy work based on shallow thinking.  It enhances their assaults on truth and efforts to marginalize those of us who know -- as opposed to believe -- what happened to JFK and RFK.

 

I am not afraid to state the facts as I know them and to admit uncertainty when I experience it.

 

You have not answered my initial questions.  Why?  Because you don't have any answers?  Because they're over your head?

 

I ask you yet again, sir: Will you define "CIA" within the context of your charges?  Where do you place "CIA" within the Evica-Drago Conspiracy Model?  Among Sponsors?  Among Facilitators?  Among Mechanics?

 

Your silence is damning.

 

Anyone with reasonable access to the evidence in the Kennedy assassinations who does not conclude that the brothers were killed by conspirators is cognitively impaired and/or complicit in the crime.

 

"Mel Ayton" my pocked, olive ass!


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#27 Greg Burnham

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 09:21 PM

Michael,

 

Suggesting that Charles and Ayton have anything in common is tantamount to an ad hominem attack.

 

Under the circumstances, Charles has shown great restraint...so far.

 

I shall warn you as one would warn Palestinians: "Don't throw rocks at Israeli soldiers in order to cry foul upon being bloodied."

 

A word to the wise.


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"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#28 Greg Burnham

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 09:44 PM

Can all parties bring it down a notch? There may be something to gain by this exchange. However, it is becoming too inflammatory.

 

Michael, I too take exception to the notion that "the CIA did it" as it is irresponsible and an utterly unsupported assertion. That they were up to their necks in the cover-up from the beginning and continue to participate in Obstruction of Justice in these capital crimes is, on the other hand, demonstrable.

 

Although Charles needs to refrain from repeatedly asking you to answer the questions he posed before it becomes badgering, still it seems to be both a fair and apropos inquiry. The answers will aid us in understanding what your thinking is as far the Agency's involvement is concerned. My good friend, the late Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, made it clear on numerous occasions that "the CIA didn't kill Kennedy" ...for a reason. Failing to place the CIA into proper context allows misinterpretations of your work to be inevitable. I hope you can prevent further speculation as to your position on this as it will save time and misunderstandings.

 

Thanks--


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#29 Charles Drago

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

I shall refrain from posing yet again the questions that I posed for the third time in post 26.  Mr. Calder's choice not to respond to any of them is sufficiently revealing to qualify as a comprehensive answer.

 

Instead, I shall re-state, in slightly altered and respectful form, additional unanswered questions that I previously posed just once, in post 23.

 

 

1. You (Calder) state with certainty that the pantry shooter was firing "right over and behind Cesar."  And so I ask you, sir:

 

Why wasn't so obvious a posture noted by witnesses?  

 

How long would the assassin's reach have to be in your scenario in order to place his weapon at near-contact range to RFK's head?  

 

How could the low-to-high trajectories of RFK's wounds have been caused by a shooter firing "right over" a standing adult male of average height?

 

Is Reed Richards one of your suspects?

 

 

2. You have written with a similar air of authority: "Apparently the shooter did get placed in the kitchen as a worker and the reason was so he wouldn't be kicked out the night of the murder. It also afforded him time to rehearse the shooting in the week leading up to it. And possibly recruit a couple of Mexican bus boys as co conspirators."

 

How is such a posting "apparent"?

 

Do we have any on-the-record witnesses who report such a rehearsal?  

 

How would this rehearsal be structured?  How many actors were cast for it?  Were they members of Equity?

 

Can you cite any conspiratorial actions by "a couple of Mexican bus boys" and name witnesses thereto?

 

 

3. You postulate -- convincingly, at least to me -- that a Sirhan doppelganger (my word) was utilized by conspiracy Facilitators (my word) during pre-attack periods.  Wholly unconvincing is your hypothesis that "this will be the man who is shooting RFK from behind as the real Sirhan is coming from the front."

 

Isn't the very foundation of the finding of conspiracy in this case the oft-cited and all but universally acknowledged fact that Sirhan never was observed to be to the rear of his target?

 

Since you claim that the gunman who mortally wounded RFK not only was a Sirhan doppelganger, but also had been "placed in the kitchen as a worker" well in advance of the attack, why is it that no hotel employee or other witness after the fact made claims to the effect that, "Wait a minute ... Sirhan DID shoot RFK from behind!" and "Wait a minute ... Sirhan worked at the hotel!"?

 

In other words, wouldn't a shooter -- especially a Sirhan look-alike -- be extremely conspicuous as he fired "right over and behind Cesar" as you believe?

 

Wouldn't reports of seeing multiple Sirhans during the shooting give away the conspiracy game? 

 

I can postulate far more effective operational uses of a Sirhan doppelganger at The Ambassador that night.  Can you?

 

I"ll be waiting with Adlai for your answers (we're becoming great friends, by the way).


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#30 Greg Burnham

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:40 AM

Pass the Earl Grey, Charles. We'll have tea while we wait. One lump or two?


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#31 Michael Calder

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:00 PM

Ok. I surrender. The questions are legitimate and well founded and well thought out. I wrote them down. I can only answer one at a time and will do so. Why no interview reports of seeing a person coming toward the senator from behind and shooting him? My first question as well as I was reading the LAPD investigation files. How does someone miss seeing this. At one point I had the opportunity to visit the pantry alone. I was there sometime. As I stood in the spot where RFK stood when he was shot, I looked around reviewing in my mind the many interview reports I read of people who were in the pantry. The space is  very small. Looking at where the witnesses were standing it was clear, everyone behind Senator Kennedy would have seen a man approaching RFK, taking out a gun and shooting him especially since the shooter shot at least 3 times. The person they would have had trouble seeing would have been Sirhan coming from the front. At one point I was up in Sacramento listening to the LAPD recorded interviews. Don Schulman, 1971 interview was of great importance. He told the DDA he was a few feet behind RFK watching him shake hands when he saw a male Caucasian take a gun out of his pocket and fire three times hitting the senator with all three shots. Yet Don Schulman is not on the official list of  people in the pantry at the time of the shooting. Evan Freed in his affidavit, also says a second gunman who looked so much like Sirhan he could be his brother, witnessed this second gunman shooting Kennedy even as Sirhan was firing from the front. Looking at the map of the pantry and positions of the witnesses, Evan Freed was just feet from Don Schulman on the other side of a partition. A young boy of 12 years who was standing further toward the double doors and behind RFK told the LAPD he saw a man with a gun come from behind a "wall." The only wall is  the partition that separates Evan Freed and Don Schulman. Schulman said something revealing and told me why there are no witness reports of the second gunman coming from behind RFK. Schulman said, "I wish you had asked me these  questions three years ago." LAPD knew Schulman had gone on tv  and radio with in  an hour of the shooting telling the world he had witnessed the shooting Yet LAPD chose not to interview him during their investigation. Why? The LAPD is destroying documents of anyone who told them of seeing a man firing from behind the senator and anyone  who told them of seeing Sirhan with a polka dot dress girl and another taller Caucasian. Anyone who was in the pantry is "written out" of the report. Just as they destroyed all those photographs I attest that a few would have shown the second gunman firing into the back of the head of Kennedy. This is also why the LAPD fought for 20 years to keep the files secret. Still, because the investigation was so intense and complete, when LAPD with CIA help, "sanitized"  the files after the verdict, still I was able to piece it all together from what they missed when doing their housecleaning. Destruction of the evidence is why you have no witness statements of seeing the second gunman.



#32 Charles Drago

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:08 PM

With gratitude for your considered response and in a renewed spirit of cooperation, I offer comments in red.

 

 

The questions are legitimate and well founded and well thought out.

 

Thank you.

 

 

I wrote them down. I can only answer one at a time and will do so. Why no interview reports of seeing a person coming toward the senator from behind and shooting him? My first question as well as I was reading the LAPD investigation files. How does someone miss seeing this.

 

For whatever it's worth, I posed this question to a veteran of multiple violent intel ops.  This person's simple explanation: "It was a sleeve gun."

 

I neither vouch for nor reject this answer.  It does beg the issue of methods for concealing firearms being used in crowds and at close quarters.

 

 

At one point I had the opportunity to visit the pantry alone. I was there sometime. As I stood in the spot where RFK stood when he was shot, I looked around reviewing in my mind the many interview reports I read of people who were in the pantry. The space is  very small. Looking at where the witnesses were standing it was clear, everyone behind Senator Kennedy would have seen a man approaching RFK, taking out a gun and shooting him especially since the shooter shot at least 3 times.

 

Unless a sleeve gun or similarly camouflaged gun was used.  But this is highly speculative. 

 

 

Don Schulman['s] 1971 interview was of great importance. He told the DDA he was a few feet behind RFK watching him shake hands when he saw a male Caucasian take a gun out of his pocket and fire three times hitting the senator with all three shots. Yet Don Schulman is not on the official list of  people in the pantry at the time of the shooting.

 

I'm familiar with the Schulman story.  It is indeed important.

 

 

Evan Freed in his affidavit, also says a second gunman who looked so much like Sirhan he could be his brother, witnessed this second gunman shooting Kennedy even as Sirhan was firing from the front. Looking at the map of the pantry and positions of the witnesses, Evan Freed was just feet from Don Schulman on the other side of a partition. A young boy of 12 years who was standing further toward the double doors and behind RFK told the LAPD he saw a man with a gun come from behind a "wall."

 

Only Freed among these witnesses attests to the gunman's facial appearance as being close to that of Sirhan.

 

 

The LAPD is destroying documents of anyone who told them of seeing a man firing from behind the senator and anyone  who told them of seeing Sirhan with a polka dot dress girl and another taller Caucasian. Anyone who was in the pantry is "written out" of the report. Just as they destroyed all those photographs I attest that a few would have shown the second gunman firing into the back of the head of Kennedy. 

 

Agreed on all points.

 

 

Destruction of the evidence is why you have no witness statements of seeing the second gunman.

 

Agreed.  My point is that formal statements to law enforcement entities aside, unsworn, unofficial recollections regarding a Sirhan doppelganger shooter and a firing posture over Cesar yet consistent with established wound trajectories and ranges to target are either uncorroborated one-offs (the former) or non-existent.  

 

 

Thanks for your efforts here.  I and others hope to read more from you soon.

 

 

 


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#33 Michael Calder

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:52 PM

Wow. You have studied the case. I thought you were getting your information from Tom and Jerry cartoons. Okay then. You will really appreciate what I post next week. It's not in any books. Just from the LAPD documents but together, in order, they tell quite a story. I misconstrued my words about the shooter shooting over the head of Thane Cesar. I was trying to simplify. A beautiful and well built co-ed named Valerie is standing just to the right of Cesar at the time of the shots. She says someone pushed her forward from behind and when she recovered her balance she looked up and saw a gun pointed at the back or the side of RFK's head. The only gun ever pointed at the back or side of RFK's head is the actual gunman's gun. She was witnessing the second gunman shoot RFK. In her televised interview maybe an hour and a half after the shooting and at the hotel for all the world to see, she was adamant about not getting a look at the gunman's face. Another guy named Richard Lubic, said he saw a gun and an arm, etc, but cannot identify a face with the gun and arm. No one is able to id the shooter from behind because the witnesses are all behind the senator and the gunman who is approaching RFK from behind. They only see the back of a man who is raising a gun toward the senator. Evan Freed watched Sirhan and the other shooter walk around the pantry in the few minutes before RFK walked in. That is why he can id the second shooter. I place the second shooter behind the partition and between Evan Freed and Valerie Schulte. Still, the shooter didn't just disappear in smoke after shooting RFK. He left the scene. Someone, perhaps several persons in the pantry behind Kennedy would have seen this guy hurriedly leaving the scene and out I presume the double doors. But we don't have their statements. If such statements were made, those reports are destroyed. Still, i've listened repeatedly to secondary voices picked up by the mike at the rostrum ,perhaps, and the voices are exclaiming about a short man having just passed through them holding a gun. I'll try to find what they said in my notes. Back to Cesar. The gunman pushed Valerie out of the way then came behind Cesar and placed the gun point blank against RFK's ear,(one inch) and fired. Because Cesar is right next to RFK, he received some of the discharge in his own face before he hit the deck. I hope that clears up the whole shooting behind Cesar thing. I'll keep the "sleve" gun in mind. Till next week.

#34 Greg Burnham

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 01:18 PM

And we thought you were getting your information from Maxwell Smart.   ;)


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#35 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 03:20 AM

From Michael's site:

 

Evan Freed Affidavit

 

1. I, Evan Phillip Freed, declare as follows:

 

I am an attorney at law, duly licensed to practice in this State.

 

During the Presidential Campaign of 1968, I was a full time college student at California State University, and was also working part-time as a photographer for Copley News Service and the Culver City Star News.  In that capacity, I was assigned to travel with and cover the Robert Kennedy Presidential campaign.

 

I traveled on Senator Kennedy’s plane, along with other members of the news media, through California and Oregon.  I spent time speaking to Senator Kennedy and his wife, and had no difficulty gaining excellent camera advantage to document the events taking place.

 

On the evening of the 1968 California primary, I was present at the Ambassador Hotel in a room directly adjacent to Senator Kennedy’s.  We had been awaiting election results.  Eventually the Senator and his staff left to go downstairs to the Embassy Room to deliver a victory speech.  I accompanied the Senator on the elevator, and entered an area of the Embassy Room set aside for press photographers.

 

During the Senator’s speech, a scuffle broke out where I was standing among several news photographers, and I was hit in the face with a large newsreel camera.  My camera was also broken in the scuffle, and I decided to go to a quiet area to attempt repairs.  I immediately went into the Embassy Room pantry area, arriving there about 5 minutes prior to the end of the Senator’s speech.

 

Nothing in the pantry area seemed unusual, however, I do recall the following.  Two men who looked very similar in appearance and clothing were moving about the pantry area.  One man was wearing lighter clothing than the other, and he was holding a drink glass in his hand.  The 2nd man was standing near the south wall of the pantry, directly across from a large metal serving table.  The men never stood together, however, they appeared to be looking at each other from time-to-time.  I did not pay particular attention to the 2nd man, although I do recall thinking that he was the other man’s brother.  I assumed that they were in the pantry to avoid the large crowd in the Embassy Room.

 

At one point, the man with the drink asked me how long the Senator’s speech would last, and I told him I did not know.  He also asked hotel kitchen employees in the pantry where he could get some ice for his drink, and they directed him to an ice machine next to the door leading into the Embassy Room.  The man with the drink was Sirhan Sirhan.

 

When the Senator entered the pantry, he was followed by a crowd of reporters and guests.  I was standing at the entrance to the pantry, and walked along the Senator’s right side until he paused near the metal serving table inside the pantry.  There appeared to be some confusion at that time with some persons telling the Senator to go back up the freight elevator, and others telling him to go into an adjacent room (I believe the California Room) where the press were waiting.  I assumed he would go to meet the press, and I took a few steps in front of him.  I was facing the Senator’s right side at that time, about 4 feet away.  It was at this time that shooting began.

 

I saw the 2nd man (wearing the darker clothing) who had been in the pantry with Sirhan during the speech pointing a gun in an upward angle at the Senator.  Based on the sound I heard, I believe the first shot came from this man’s gun.  In the background, about 6-8 feet from me, I could see Sirhan firing a revolver held in his right hand in the direction of the Senator.  People in the crowd were screaming and grabbing Sirhan, and I remember they were holding his arm as he was shooting.  I cannot say how many shots were fired by Sirhan or by the second gunman.

 

As the crowd rushed towards Sirhan, they passed by the 2nd gunman.  He was backing away, towards the east end of the pantry.  I was shoved by the surge of the crowd back against the south wall of the pantry, where I was alone next to another door that exited into the Embassy Room.

At that time, I observed the 2nd gunman running in my direction.  He was not holding a gun at that time.  Another man was running behind him in the same direction yelling at me, “Stop that guy, stop him.”  There was no one else other than the 2nd gunman that he could have been yelling at.  This took place just as I was opening the door to the Embassy Room to get some help.

 

As the 2nd gunman came to the door, the man pursuing him yelled to me again, “Get him, get it!”  As the 2nd gunman passed through the door, the man pursuing him tried to grab him but failed.  Both men ran into the Embassy Room.  The 2nd gunman ran directly out the east doors of the Embassy Room.  The man running after him almost fell as he came through the pantry doors, and he continued running in the same direction as the second gunman.  I never saw either of these men again.

 

I went back into the pantry, and soon realized I could be of little help.  I tried preventing people from entering the room, and hotel staff soon took over that task.  I then went back upstairs to the Senator’s room, speaking briefly with Milton Berle, one of the few people who had stayed behind when the Senator had gone downstairs.

 

I place a couple of phone calls from the room to my family to advise them that I was not injured in the shooting.  I assumed they had been watching the events on live television.  I then returned to the pantry, where I gave my name, address and phone number to an LAPD officer who had arrived at the scene.  I then left the Ambassador Hotel, eventually going home.

 

It was not until several weeks later that I was contacted by LAPD to give a statement.  My recollection is that over a month went by until I was asked to come to Parker Center to speak to detectives investigating the case.  I met with several LAPD detectives, and told them what I have stated above.  They asked me to look through photographs taken in the Embassy Room the night of the shooting, and to point myself out.  After doing this, I was asked whether or not the man pursuing the 2nd gunman could have been yelling, “Get an ambulance” or “Get a doctor.”  I told them that was not correct, but they insisted I had been incorrect in what I heard.  Although I have a description of the man who pursued the 2nd gunman, I was never asked to look for him in photos, or otherwise produce a drawing of him.  I made it very clear that the 2nd gunman look very much like Sirhan, except that his clothing was darker in color and coordinated.

 

At the end of my interview, the detectives asked me to send them all my photographs I had taken of the Senator.  They said they wanted to try to locate Sirhan in the crowds.  They promised to return the negatives to me, however, they never did, insisting they had been mixed up with all the others.

 

I was eventually contacted by the FBI, who interviewed me at my home.  They asked me specific questions, mainly about Sirhan.  They seemed to be avoiding asking me questions about the 2nd gunman, although I told them the same things I have stated above.

 

Other than a news crew sent to my home by Baxter Ward (Channel 9 News) several years later, I have never spoken to the press about these events.  I have never desired publicity in this matter, and I have no opinion as to who fired the shot or shots that killed Senator Kennedy.  My purpose in making these statements now is to help insure that a fair investigation is conducted in this case.

 

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.  Executed this 13th day of May, 1992, at Los Angeles, California.

 

____________________

EVAN PHILLIP FREED
 

 

http://www.jfkcia.com/main/?p=55



#36 Charles Drago

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:25 PM

Thanks for this, Phil.  I'm going to focus on just one of Calder's earlier claims within the context of this affidavit's revelations.

 

In post 19 of this thread, Calder writes:

 

"There is a gunman who is identical to Sirhan. He is working at the hotel the week of the murder in the kitchen. There is also a person who is under mkultra  as well, and is a ringer for Sirhan. The shooter is one of these two men." [emphasis added]

 

Now from Freed's affidavit:

 

 

 

Nothing in the pantry area seemed unusual, however, I do recall the following.  Two men who looked very similar in appearance and clothing were moving about the pantry area.  One man was wearing lighter clothing than the other, and he was holding a drink glass in his hand.  The 2nd man was standing near the south wall of the pantry, directly across from a large metal serving table.  The men never stood together, however, they appeared to be looking at each other from time-to-time.  I did not pay particular attention to the 2nd man, although I do recall thinking that he was the other man’s brother I assumed that they were in the pantry to avoid the large crowd in the Embassy Room. [emphasis added]

 

At one point, the man with the drink asked me how long the Senator’s speech would last, and I told him I did not know.  He also asked hotel kitchen employees in the pantry where he could get some ice for his drink, and they directed him to an ice machine next to the door leading into the Embassy Room.  The man with the drink was Sirhan Sirhan.

 

I saw the 2nd man (wearing the darker clothing) who had been in the pantry with Sirhan during the speech pointing a gun in an upward angle at the Senator.  Based on the sound I heard, I believe the first shot came from this man’s gun.  In the background, about 6-8 feet from me, I could see Sirhan firing a revolver held in his right hand in the direction of the Senator.  People in the crowd were screaming and grabbing Sirhan, and I remember they were holding his arm as he was shooting.  I cannot say how many shots were fired by Sirhan or by the second gunman.

 

 

 

Please read with extra care the two passages that I have emphasized.  In my opinion the latter quote from Freed does not even come close to justifying Calder's "identical" descriptor.  

 

A small point, you say?  Not really.  Not when Calder places a degree of certainty upon tenuous explanations of what could be important evidence in this case.  in effect Calder draws attention away from the single most significant point -- observation of a second gunman in the pantry -- to an issue of decidedly secondary importance.

 

I would be EXTREMELY interested in additional, corroborating testimony placing a Sirhan doppelganger at the scene of the crime -- whether or not such a figure was firing a weapon.  

 

Calder goes on to write, "There is also a person who is under mkultra  as well, and is a ringer for Sirhan."  

 

Aside from his customary linguistic imprecision ("under mkultra" [sic]), Calder begs us to differentiate between "identical" and "ringer" even as he asks us to accept, without a hint of documentation, that not one but two Sirhan doppelgangers were in place in the kill zone at the moment of execution.

 

Might we be dealing with a case of the "they all look alike to me" phenomenon?

 

Again, I am captivated by the well-established pattern of utilization of doppelgangers in intel ops.  But given his track record of presenting simplistic, ill-informed, inartfully rendered "analyses," Calder's offering of yet another iteration of this phenomenon does not so much seed fertile ground as sow it with salt.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#37 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 02:17 PM

Another important witness ignored or distorted is Don Schulman.  A half dozen references on a quick search produces similar results to the following:

 

The author notes some of the techniques used by LAPD to isolate a key witness like KNXT TV messenger Don Schulman. Schulman said he saw a security guard pull a gun and then heard several shots fired. Since this was incriminating of Cesar, the LAPD began to distort what he said in their reports, and actually tried to get witnesses at the TV station to say he was not in the pantry at the time. (p. 321) (I should note here, this is precisely what author Robert Blair Kaiser used to discredit Schulman in the reissue of his book, RFK Must Die. ) The author notes in this regard that, as in the JFK case, other witnesses had their testimony altered by the authorities. For example, the FBI significantly altered the statements of Nina Rhodes. She said she heard somewhere between 10-14 shots from more than one direction. The Bureau wrote that she said she heard only 8 distinct shots. (p. 343)

 

http://www.ctka.net/...lled_bobby.html

 

In reading the Turner & Christian, Klaber & Melanson, and Shane O'Sullivan, we see all witnesses counter to the lone gunman/no conspiracy were ignored or distorted.  Witness the attempt to make Schulman--like Crenshaw--absent.

 

RFK was followed in the preceding days by a knot including Sirhan.  There is a certain kitchen employee of interest.  And of course Michael the Poster Boy who was in the hall and in the kitchen.

 

Shadow Play, indeed.

 

Too, too solid flesh to follow.



#38 Michael Calder

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:12 PM

Greg Burnham and Charles Drago. Start sipping the Earl Grey tea. You are both about to get schooled.

Marsha Kirtz:

Mrs Kirtz is a member of the Women's Auxillary to the Los Angeles Medical Association. On May 28, 1968, 11 A.M., she attended a luncheon for the installation of new officers. This luncheon took place at the Ambassador Hotel, "Embassy Room." At approximately 1 P.M. a speech was being delivered when a disturbance started behind the curtain area. This disturbance consisted of loud voices. Mrs Kirtz then went behind the curtain where the noise was coming from and she discovered four young men talking in a foreign language. The four men were in a kneeling position in a small circular group.

One of the males was holding a pointer (round stick approx. 18" long) and appeared to be giving instructions to the other individuals. This person is described as m/latin; 23-25; 5'8", 130/140,brown curly bushy hair; white dress type shirt with the sleeves rolled up, blk dress type pants. Mrs Kirtz furthered described this person as strongly resembling Mario Salvio in appearance. During this period the other individuals were talking in a foreign language and it appeared they were arguing due to the tone of voice. Mrs Kirtz observed this activity for two minutes and then indicated to the foursome to lower their voices. At this time all the persons turned and looked in Mrs Kirtz's direction. The group then quieted down and Mrs Kirtz returned to her table.

Mrs Kirtz thought no more of the matter until she saw a picture of Sirhan in the newspaper. At this point she became aware of the fact that one of the individuals in the group strongly resembled Sirhan. She described this person as m/latin, 21/22, 5'4", 120/125, very dark blk curly hair, which was full on top. Dark eyes wearing white dress shirt with sleeves rolled up a turn or two. Dark trousers, blk shoes with a higher than normal type heal. When Mrs Kirtz was shown the packet of mugs, she selected the one of Sirhan with the finger on right of the mug. She further stated that this particular mug was the best likeness except the hair was shorter in the mug. She then selected the mug (BK #495139) of Sirhan and stated this mug was the same as the person she observed at the Ambassador.

Mrs Kirtz further described the other two as follows: m/latin, 23-25, 5'8" 130-140, brown curly hair, white dress shirt with sleeves rolled up, dark pants. M/latin, small, build, dark straight hair which appeared to be greasy. White jacket(bus boy type).

Mrs Kirtz further states that upon observing the mannerism of Sirhan on tv, they were also very similar to those of the person she observed at the Ambassador Hotel on 5-28-68.


Rose Gallegos:

Officers Miller and Poteete interviewed Mrs. Gallegos at her residence. P/R states that on June 2,1968, P/R and her adopted daughter Aida attended a Kennedy rally at the Ambassador Hotel. P/R was a Kennedy worker and was serving as a hostess at this function. At approximately 10 p.m., noticed three men standing in the hallway just outside the kitchen area. These men were dressed in white jackets which kitchen workers wear. P/R asked the men "What are you doing standing over here." The men did not reply, but only laughed at P/R. Mrs Gallegos described the men, suspect #1 5', slickly black hair, 21/22 years, 150,oriental appearance. Suspect #2 5'8", thin,130,25 years, wears glasses. Suspect#3 black curly hair,5'2", 135, latin appearance. P/R states that suspect #3 was Sirhan B.Sirhan. P/R states that suspect #2 then stated,"Let's get out of here", after which the men went into the kitchen. P/R did not see the suspects again that evening. Officers showed Mrs. Gallegos the prepared mug packet and P/R selected Sirhan's photos as the man she saw at the Ambassador Hotel.

Miriam Davis:

Mrs Davis attended a reception for Senator Kennedy at the Coconut Grove ballroom on June 2,1968. She stated that after the senator left the hotel, she entered the kitchen area and observed a man sitting on a bar. He was wearing dark pants, a tee shirt, swarthy appearance with short bushy, hair.

Mrs Davis advised that after the assassination of Senator Kennedy she saw photographs on television and in the newspapers of the man known as Sirhan Bishara Sirhan. She immediately recognized him as the same man that she had seen in the kitchen on June 2. she stated she was reasonably certain that it was the same individual or a look a like.

Marlene Drasin:

Mrs Drasin came to the attention of this department through Helen Rubin,I-1148. Mrs Drasin stated to Mrs Rubin she had seen Sirhan in the kitchen prior to the senator's speech.

Mrs Drasin was interviewed on the above date and time at her residence. She stated she was a volunteer worker for the Kennedy campaign. She arrived at the Ambassador Hotel at approx. 8:30 p.m. She states she spent most of the evening in the Ambassador Ballroom although she did make several trips to the lobby area outside the Embassy Room. She stated she was in a room that contained a tv set and telephone. When the phone rang she answered it and a female voice identified herself as Chet Huntley's niece and asked to leave a message. (She can't recall the name of the caller) Mrs Drasin took the message and at approx. 11 p.m. went to the Embassy Room in an attempt to find Chet Huntley. She asked the guasrd at the main entrance to the Embassy Room where she could find Chet Huntley and he directed her to the kitchen from the doorway next to the Embassy Room's main entrance. She stated she found the Chief of Security standing between two serving tables. She cannot recall his name but describes him as m/c, 35/40, heavy set, medium height, wearing a darker uniform than that of the other guard. She stated the Chief of Security directed her to the Colonial Room. She observed a m/poss latin, 19-20, thin build, med brw comp, wearing a white dress shirt open at the collar. She stated that due to the fact that he was leaning against the wall near the N E door of the serving kitchen, she thought he was a hotel employee and spoke to him saying, "Don't work to hard." She stated he did not speak but just smiled. She continued to the Colonial Room and then into the lobby area. She did not go back into the kitchen area of the Embassy Room after that. She stated she left the hotel at approx. 11:30 -1145 p.m. She stated she stopped on the way home to get something to eat when she learned Senator Kennedy had been shot. She stated she watched the news on tv upon arriving home and when Sirhan's picture was shown on tv she felt that Sirhan and the person she observed leaning against the kitchen were the same.

#39 Charles Drago

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:50 PM

The Four Stooges killed RFK.

 

Whudda thunk it?

 

A sophisticated plot by "CIA" finds four of "CIA's" henchman in circle-jerk position publicly rehearsing "CIA" assassination plans.

 

Oh, to have heard those instructions ...

 

"Pay attention, puddin' head!  Do you know where you're supposed to be?"

 

"Sointenly!"

 

"Where?"

 

"Up in the window with the gun, nyuk nyuk nyuk!"

 

"Wrong assassination, lame brain!"  Lame Brain struck in head with butt of .22 revolver.  Butt is dented.

 

"Look what ya did!  Now CIA is gonna make me pay for another gun."

 

"CIA?  You're crazy!  I be Curly, nyuk nyuk nyuk!"

 

Curly is poked in his eyes.

 

"Don't worry," Curly says.  "That security guard over there's got one just like it!"

 

"Why I oughta ... "

 

 

Scoff if you will, but I have proof.  The following should keep Calder up all night long.

 

 

 

 

Those Latino stooges ... they all look alike.


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"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#40 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 05:54 PM

Here is a six-pane progression showing Jerry Bruno employee Gary Wayne Dotterman instructing Ambassador Hotel maître d'hôtel Karl Uecker where to lead the candidate in the moments between the completion of remarks and exit from the stage:

 

2504daq.jpg

 

Witness Nina Rhodes-Hughes by the one-minute mark in the six-minute youtube below recounts her reaction:  She was to take the candidate to the Pierre Salinger-arranged press availability and she excitedly calls, "No, no, no, you're going in the wrong direction!"

 

http://www.youtube.c...e&v=68Ov659riaw

 

And here is a useful account which mentions the excellent book on the subject Shadow Play:

 

Rhodes-Hughes’ concerns about alleged discrepancies in the Sirhan prosecution previously were published in the 1997 book about Kennedy’s assassination — Shadow Play: The Killing of Robert Kennedy, The Trial of Sirhan Sirhan, and the Failure of American Justice — co-authored by Melanson and William Klaber.

 

The authors concluded that the 1968 statements of Rhodes-Hughes and two other witnesses who cast doubt on the prosecution’s single-shooter case were “systematically ignored” by police investigators.

“None of them has sought publicity or gain concerning what they saw the night of the murder,” the authors wrote of the three witnesses. “None could be considered an assassination buff or a conspiracy theorist. They merely reported to the police what they saw.”

 

The head of Sirhan’s defence team, William Pepper, told CNN that Rhodes-Hughes’ insistence about hearing more than eight shots “mirrors the experience of other witnesses” and bolsters Sirhan’s push for a re-trial.

 

“She identified 15 errors, including the FBI alteration which quoted her as hearing only eight shots, which she explicitly denied was what she had told them,” Pepper stated.

 

http://news.national...as-2nd-shooter/

 

Marsha Kirtz describes a graphic discussion reminiscent of that ascribed to David Ferrie with geometry and arrows and almost Victor Borge sound effects.

 

Not as elegant as the dramatic briefing with Eisenhower and Churchill present in the runup to Overlord.

 

Dotterman to Uecker to Cesar, who's seen to it that Sirhan has been allowed access.  Multitasking.

 

But Moldea holds him harmless, having the benefit of recording things Sirhan never said.

 

Leamer's "good friend" could always guest on Coast-to-Coast.






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