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#1 Raymond Montgomery

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 11:52 AM

Having read a great deal about the JFK assassination, and having formed opinions concerning the cover up that has been foisted upon the American people, I now find myself becoming intrigued by, what maybe, minor discrepancies concerning the actions of the chief players. Something has been gnawing at me for some time now, and perhaps it has already been discussed elsewhere, but I am not as much interested in the Zapruder film itself as I am the actions of Abraham Zapruder during the assassination. Zapruder described himself as being driven almost to hysteria by what he witnessed. He also originally stated that he believed the shots were coming from almost directly behind him. Yet, even as these shots were being fired, the camera never flinches. Having been in combat, I cannot fathom that any person can find themselves in the line of unexpected fire and never quiver. Zapruder even held his composure long enough to follow JFK's limo as it disappeared through the underpass. To me, his actions are more than remarkable. They would make combat photographers envious! It is almost as if he was positioned to create a useful record of the event. I know his personal connections in the white Russian community, but has anyone ever written anything about Zapruder other than the typical boilerplate? 



#2 Greg Burnham

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:30 PM

The Amazing Web of Abraham Zapruder

 

Although you may find this article to be a bit boilerplate... Welcome to the forum, Raymond. 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

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“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

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#3 Larry Trotter

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:38 PM

Having seen a JFK motorcade in Houston on 9/12/'62, that has very few, if any, photographs and or films available, what has for awhile been troubling to me is the vast amount of cameras in use in Dealey Plaza, which is basically at the end of the Dallas Motorcade on 11/22/'63, that captured the crime of the century. A coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.


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#4 Jim Hackett II

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:10 AM

Coincidence keep piling up in the Fables.

After a time coincidence just won't do as a 'theory'.

Given Abe's connexion to both 'white russian' interests and those interests coinciding with other more official connexions as USSS facilitator asset Sorrels,

as well the camera skills referenced above.

Dino Brugioni blew the cartoon factory's work to dust.

 

Then the 'other film' issue.

 

Can't buy any more coincidence in the Z-toon fiascoes.



#5 Raymond Montgomery

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:06 PM

Perhaps I need to step further out on this limb. I have viewed the Zapruder copy which has been labelled "before it was damaged by Life magazine" countless times over the last several years, and I do not believe it was shot by Abraham Zapruder while standing on a concrete pillar while being steadied by his secretary. The thing I focus on is that the elevation of the camera never changes. In fact, that elevation remains so steady that the limo almost drops from the bottom edge of the screen right before the fatal head shot. It as if the camera is on a stationary tripod. I contend that there is a possibility that Zapruder's actions that day were window dressing, and the film that is shown as Zapruder's was taken from some other vantage point, perhaps near the pergola, in order to be later retouched into a piece of evidence that fit the "official" story. Unfortunately, the final head shot proved too violent to be reconstructed even on film, so the film was withheld from the public for years and it was hoped that the juxtaposed frames originally printed in Life magazine would be sufficient. I also see the possibility that this scenario may be the reason that Abraham Zapruder seemed so inconsistent when explaining how much he had sold the film for. 

There has been so much disinformation in this case that I find myself concerned about my own state of paranoia. I try desperately to follow Occam's imperative, but the simplest answers never seem to answer the questions I formulate.



#6 Greg Burnham

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:20 PM

Raymond,

 

You make some very good points. I agree with your observations about the film and your concerns regarding Zapruder. The film appears as if it was shot from a tripod. Jack White and I often discussed this possibility. Also note that we have no photographic record clearly identifying Zapruder on the pedestal! Not even one. Moorman, Bronson, Muchmore, Willis, etc., do not clearly show who was up there or what they were doing. Why? He was in broad daylight elevated in plain sight?

 

Occam's Razor: Zapruder's "legend" is a myth.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#7 Charles Drago

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 07:39 AM

By definition, intelligence operations are immune to dissection by Occam's blunt instrument.

 

Why?

 

Because the evidentiary record allowed under the blade has been obfuscated, concocted, distorted, and/or marginalized.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#8 Raymond Montgomery

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:49 AM

Mr Drago: I do not intend this as an invitation to debate, but I view Occam as the only method by which we can carve away that obfuscation which you so eloquently point to. As a single example, I have personally, long ago, discarded the death bed confessions of E Howard Hunt. I must view him as a committed servant unto death, and any information he leaves us with thus becomes fruit of a poisoned tree. This journey that I have been on requires that I cling to some vine of hope; it is too depressing otherwise. All I can accomplish is to follow the logic that the Marchettis and Morrows who offer up their "informed" critiques are doing so with the blessing of the Agency. While I recognize that mine is a single voice of protest, I soldier on this foolish path, perhaps naively believing that the simplest explanation is the most logical. The answer is, as it always has been, greed.


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#9 Greg Burnham

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 10:24 AM

Raymond,

 

If I am reading my Charles correctly, he is advancing an explanation for the dilemma you described when you wrote this sentence:

 

"I try desperately to follow Occam's imperative, but the simplest answers never seem to answer the questions I formulate."

 

To further extrapolate, since the evidence allowed to be examined is inadequate to the facts of the case, then the answers resultant through application of the Razor to formulated questions regarding that inadequate evidence must therefore also be inadequate to the facts of the case. (As in, if a = b and b = c then ... )

 

However, Occam's Razor can be very useful as we examine well defined evidence in this case. For instance, Occam's Razor demands the we conclude that the Zapruder Film was altered. Why? Because it is the simplest answer adequate to the evidence. John Costella, PhD has shown that the sign post cannot both lean and then un-lean in subsequent frames of the film if the film were authentic. Yet that is exactly what the film shows. However, if true, such "movement" would defy the laws of physics. Therefore, in order to explain this "alternating state of leaning and then not leaning" evidence we can either choose the extremely complex solution (and rewrite the immutable laws of physics) to explain what we have empirically observed or--preferably--we can choose the simple solution: that the film has been altered.

 

While many have observed that this film alteration process would itself be very complex, it would not be nearly as complex as rewriting the laws of physics. Therefore film alteration explains the evidence fully yet remains much less complex than the alternative explanation.

 

I do not believe tossing Occam's Razor out is wise, necessary or appropriate even--and perhaps especially--in this case. However, its application must be employed with greater care, keeping in mind its limited utility in cases burdened by the deliberate tainting of most of the evidence.


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

Forum:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Research Forum

 
YouTube Channel:
 
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#10 Raymond Montgomery

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 11:02 AM

Greg: Agreed



#11 Larry Trotter

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 02:51 AM

I believe it was Yogi Berra who said, "when you come to a fork in the road, you have to take it", or words to that effect. In this case, that can be somewhat unfortunate.


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#12 Charles Drago

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:58 AM

In lieu of Occam's Razor, I prefer to administer the technique known as the Schlossen Cutoff.

 


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#13 Larry Trotter

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:49 AM

Abraham Zapruder (1905-1970), claims to be the person on the pedestal filming the JFK Motorcade during the assassination along Elm St, and assisting him is supposedly Marilyn Sitzman (1939-1993). It appears to be a male and a female on the pedestal, but I cannot discern if it is in fact AZ and MS. However, I also am unable discern that is is not. I also do not recall any specific eyewitness testimony indicating it was not AZ filming, and MS assisting him at the time.

As I have expressed previously, I have concern about the multitude of cameras in Dealey Plaza at the time of JFK's murder. I tend to believe, for the most part, that taking photographs and filming was the result of a rumored incident, but not necessarily an assassination. I still believe that "something was in the air" prior to the event on 11/22/'63, but nothing specific.

Maybe, that "something" served a purpose to "signal all clear" when "something did not happen" when thought to have occurred. I believe Charles Drago has expressed that thought, or something similar, on a previous post, and indications are that he is correct.


Larry

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#14 Jim Hackett II

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 03:39 PM

First, Thanks for the clip when Johnny was Johnny, not the hack that abused Jim Garrison. (Yes the L-4 Grasshopper model too is in the works)

Second off topic or tangential, I find the coincidence of the wounds depicted in the cartoon both first being opposed to the attending medical folks testimony from Parkland and in complete agreement with the Bethesda medical 'pontificates'.

 

The explanation I accept is that voiced by David Lifton and Doug Horne. That the corpse was altered quite crudely and in my opinion to fit the manufactured conclusion of the fable.

 

In 1980-1 we could "guess" and wonder, we no longer have to do so. See Doug Horne's Inside the Assassination Records Review Board v.2 pp. 589-640 and Lifton's Best Evidence.

 

As Greg and others noted Dr. Costella has pointed out the film must be a construct. What little physics I know or have not forgotten is exceeded but his points make sense to me.

 

Oh I too think and was told by people alive in east Texas and Louisiana in the early 1960s that something was in the air before the fact.

After the fact many folks there abouts to this day would say Standard Oil killed him just like Huey Long....

It was bigger than all the Rockefeller Family and friends but nevertheless an interesting way to express the view.






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