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Zapruder - The Turn on Elm


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#1 John David

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 10:03 AM

All,

I am new to this Forum and I apologize if this has already been covered but when searching YouTube the other day and entering "The other Zapruder Film" into the search bar, there is a short video, (about 50 seconds) which shows the Limo turning from Houston onto Elm and you can see the lead car moving behind what appears to be the Stemmons Fwy sign. Not at all like the extant film. Is this clip real? I suspect not but would like your take on it. The link to the video is below.

Thanks,

JD

 

 



#2 Greg Burnham

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 02:23 PM

Welcome to the forum, John.

 

I don't know what this is or where it came from. I suspect that it may be from a movie like "JFK" or "Executive Action" but I would need to spend time researching (comparing) it to know if that's what it is for sure or from which film it was taken.

 

Perhaps you can research that on your own and find out more through the process of elimination?

 

Please let us know what you find out when you have completed the assignment.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

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#3 John David

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 05:35 AM

Greg,

I did scan JFK and Executive Action and was unable to find this segment. Perhaps it is an outtake from one of those films that somebody had. Sure would like to know where it came from though.

John



#4 Greg Burnham

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 11:25 AM

A few quick observations:

 

1) Zapruder's Bell & Howell was set to Full Telephoto (zoom) and this camera--assuming it is a B&H like Zapruder's--was not

 

2) the bystanders on the north side of Elm are very animated in your clip, not so in the Z-film

 

3) there is no Umbrella Man near the Stemmons Fwy sign in your clip

 

4) the camera location appears to be much higher in your clip than it does in the Z-film

 

5) compare the characteristics of the bystanders on the north side of Elm between both films. Not even close. The number of bystanders, their genders, and the color of their clothing don't match nor does their position. Z-133 (below) is the first frame in which the limo is seen. It should be about the closest match to where your clip ends and where the Z-film with limo begins (that we have available) from the extant film. As you can see the bystanders are completely different. The time interval between these two moments cannot be very long. Certainly not sufficient enough for additional bystanders to have rushed into position.

 

z133.jpg

 

 

UnknownFIlm.jpg

 

6) your clip was most certainly shot many years after 1963 -- evidence of this can be seen by comparing the length of the "tree's trunk" in your clip to what is observed in the Z-film. In the Z-film the tree's branches and leafy foliage line up at about the top of the wall seen behind it. In your clip the branches and leafy foliage do not line up with the top of the wall, but rather begin much, much higher above the top of that wall. This observation is not caused by a different perspective. If anything, the difference in camera location (higher) in your clip would have the opposite effect if it was a simple matter of perspective. The lower the camera's position the higher the branches and foliage would appear relative to the top of the wall. Even if we were to assume that the position of the cameras are identical, the size (height / length) of the tree trunk has significantly increased. Therefore, the tree grew a lot taller between the time the two films were shot.

 

z207.jpg


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#5 Larry Trotter

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 03:32 PM

As I would expect, Mr Burnham has explained quite well the differences in the two different films of the Dealey Plaza Elm St area. I would tend to believe a reenactment, but do not recall seeing it in "JFK", although it may be there, but I don't think so. I think "Executive Action" was released in '73, and before I saw the '79 public viewing of the Zfilm as broadcast on TV, so I am not surprised if it is not there as well. 


Larry

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