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"Dark Complected Man" - A Study by Gerda Dunckel

Dark Complected Man Gerda Dunckel

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#21 Paul Harris

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

Greg,

Fully agree the clinched fist is a miliatry signal to stop shooting. What has bothered me over the years is that the DCM made the clinch fist seconds BEFORE the fatal head shot(s) were fired. 



#22 Greg Burnham

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:56 PM

Clinched fist also means STOP the vehicle.


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#23 Jim Hackett II

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:08 PM

It is significant --- the clinched fist STOP hand signal.

Clinched fist as hand signal means STOP NOW in place - even to infantry pounding boots. STOP NOW.

The clinched fist as hand signal to crane operators means STOP now, too.

Fairly common signal in non-verbal communication for STOP.

 

There is some photographic evidence of "DCM" stepping into Elm Street to IMO, emphasize the STOP order to USSS Agent Greer.

 

I do recall the printed "hand signals" right out of the manual for marines printed on the carton of a "matty mattel" toy rifle from my youth in the same timeframe as the Murder.

If I knew then in that day what the clinched fist silent signal meant as a 10 year-old-kid, I am sure others in the motorcade knew too.

No wonder the real history of events had to be "modified" from reality.

 

Mind-wipes by MSM to erase the SS100X complete STOP from the reality substituting anything else to fit the Fable standing in truth's place.

Psyops to create "conspiracy theorists" of independent researchers.

Smear for the truth and again we are told to pay no attention to the jackass behind the curtain.

 

That is all I have to say on the STOP signal on Elm St. between the TSBD and the triple overpass.

Jim


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#24 Stan Wilbourne

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:37 AM

Amazing how close this man is to the murdered president.

 

Amazing that a man with a pumping umbrella is immediately behind him.

 

Amazing that they sit together calmly after JFK's blood is splattered in the street, while the rest of the Plaza is on fire with human activity.

 

Amazing that 50 years later we know so little about them.

 

avatars-000060795418-fyytij-crop.jpg?435


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#25 Charles Drago

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

Sitting quietly as they did may represent adherence to tradecraft.  

 

Take no inculpatory actions.  Give no indication of flight.

 

Or they may have been ordered to hold in place until a certain event occurred.  Can we correlate their departures from the curb to any other interesting action ... for example, passage of the suspect Nash station wagon?

 

(Irony of the day: "nash" is the transliteration of the Russian word commonly used by Soviet intelligence services to indicate "one of ours."  You'll recall that Ian Fleming used Captain "Nash" as the alias for the SMERSH assassin sent to kill 007 in From Russia with Love -- the novel, by the way, that in 1957 introduced the concept of the utilization by intelligence agencies of serial killers for wet operations.

 

But I digress.)


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#26 Greg Burnham

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:44 PM

First:

 

There was no abort team. That is pure, unadulterated "spy novel" bullshit.

 

Second:

 

I agree that the idea of having spotters anywhere except (where they belong) next to the shooters is ridiculous.

 

Third:

 

I would not discount the clenched fist as it is the universal sign to STOP -- in this case --  a vehicle.

 

Fourth:

 

I suspect that the Umbrella System may have been used to deliver the 46-40 paralytic agent via a flechette dart. (But, it is NOT my pet theory

as I don't have one.)

 

Fifth:

 

Your statement:  --"Rosemary Willis described Louis Witt's actions the same way Louis Witt did" -- begs the question and is therefore fallacious.

I will concede, however, that Rosemary Willis' description of Umbrella Man's actions is similar to Louis Witt's description Umbrella Man's actions.

However, that does not prove that Louis Witt was Umbrella Man.


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“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#27 Paul Harris

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:42 PM

While I believe the limousine either slowed down or stopped on Elm,   I've always had problems believing Greer intentionally did it.   If he intentionally did it, then that makes him privy to a lot of the assassination details and thus a conspirator.  And the planners would have basically told him, hey, stop the limousine on Elm Street so we can have multiple shooters fire a volley of shots from high powered rifles into your car from several directions to kill the President sitting two rows back from you.  I'm not sure any person would agree to that plan knowing he might be shot as well.

 

I have no idea if Greer was part of the conspirary. I do believe that elements of the Secret Service were invovled. Which leads me to this question for you guys that have so much expert knowledge of the assassination:  Was Greer or Kellerman in radio contact with the SS car following the limousine, and if so, did Greer take orders from that car?  If so, then I wonder if Greer got a radio order to slow or stop the limosine?



#28 Paul Harris

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

My comments in red bold below.

 

First:

 

There was no abort team. That is pure, unadulterated "spy novel" bullshit.   Totally agree.  There might have been a flight out of Florida bringing some "spectators", or the plane situated for another option out of Dallas after the assassination, but to think that group (if there was a group) was an abort team is fiction.   

 

Second:

 

I agree that the idea of having spotters anywhere except (where they belong) next to the shooters is ridiculous.  Totally agree. I think each shooter had a spotter who also doubled as a lookout for any person coming up from behind.  I do think there were members of the ground crew near the street such as the UM and DCM, and perhaps some others serving as crowd and witness control.  But those men were not technically spotters.

 

Third:

 

I would not discount the clenched fist as it is the universal sign to STOP -- in this case --  a vehicle.

 

Fourth:

 

I suspect that the Umbrella System may have been used to deliver the 46-40 paralytic agent via a flechette dart. (But, it is NOT my pet theory

as I don't have one.)  I never considered this theory, never seemed credible. 

 

Fifth:

 

Your statement:  --"Rosemary Willis described Louis Witt's actions the same way Louis Witt did" -- begs the question and is therefore fallacious.

I will concede, however, that Rosemary Willis' description of Umbrella Man's actions is similar to Louis Witt's description Umbrella Man's actions.

However, that does not prove that Louis Witt was Umbrella Man.  When UM and DCM sat next to each other on the curb while everybody else was running or laying down, has always lead me to believe they knew each other.  Who would sit down on a curb in that much open space  right next to a total stranger after the President had been shot?



#29 Tom Scully

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

http://educationforu...ic=8663&p=82749

Chuck Robbins Posted 27 November 2006 - 05:51 PM

I read an article once, about an incident in Canada, where a man thought to be David Ferrie was speaking
with an associate in public. A canadian overheard him talking about the assassination.

What caught my attention in this article was a statement which said Ferrie talked about someone involved
in the assassination being dumb enough to be photographed at Love Field.

I scanned Love Field photos and did find one face, and, if it is who it looks like, he said he was in California
at the time of the assassination.

This was posted at Lancer by me a few years back. It got some attention, but, I felt it was not given the
scrutiny it deserved.......

 

 

 

http://educationforu...?showtopic=8663

Robert Howard Posted 28 November 2006 - 06:33 AM

Back in the early 1990's, the Dallas West End was the home of the JFK Assassination Information Center. I used to go there quite a bit and saw a lot of interesting items, one of which pertains to the subject of this thread, maybe Jack White will see this, and add what info he may have. There was a Poster of "DCM & the Umbrella Man" there; which may or may not have been where I saw....a picture of the Dark Complected Man at......Love Field! He [if it indeed was him] was, in the not too distant background as JFK and Jackie get into the Limo, and if memory serves correctly is within 10-12 feet by the time they are comfortably seated and the limo begins to slowly pull away from the crowd. For all I know, I may be the only one, who is familiar with the image, but I am reasonably sure I have also seen this person even in the television footage of Love Field, years ago.

Also, I would think if anyone was a candidate for the person referenced as being at Love Field, and is known as Isaac or Isaac's, it would be Harold Isaacs as I have seen his name mentioned in the context of communicating with either Ruth Paine or Priscilla McMillan after the assassination. From the - For what it's worth, department

 

http://educationforu...ic=8663&p=82849

Jack White Posted 28 November 2006

 

I did the poster. It was photos of the umbrella man and cuban, all in
dealey plaza. It had no photos at love field.

Jack

 

 

 

 

I found the following page (pg. 11) last year from a newsletter at the Weissberg archive, jfk.hood.edu. :

 

[PDF] IN MEMORIAM: BERNARD "BUD" FENSTERWALD, JR.
jfk.hood.edu/Collection/.../A%20Disk/.../Item%2005.pdf‎
Cuban. JFK. ASSASSINATION INFORMATION CENTER. 603 Munger Boa 40. Dallas, Texas ..... Apparently, these are photos from Love Field on Nov. 22,. 1963.

 

 

I found the Ed Forum thread I quoted from above after I found the photo layout below, matching the recollection of Robert Howard. Figure resembling DCM is described as also being spotted in the AF-1 photo in the lower left, but I do not see him yet. (Correction: lower right photo, not lower left.)DCMloveField.jpg



#30 Charles Drago

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:10 PM

The most likely candidate is the lone male closest to the lens and located at bottom center of the larger image.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#31 Greg Burnham

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

I think that is the closest match Charles. I remember noticing his resemblance to the DCM years ago and pointed it out to Jack White and

perhaps Scott Myers. I was informed later by one or maybe both of them that the man pictured in the bottom photo is that of a photographer,

if I'm not mistaken, who was working that day. I don't remember his name right now. It seems like it began with a "D" though. FWIW 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#32 Gordon Gray

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:03 PM

Just to add. If the limo didn't stop the assassination would not have succeeded. I don't think that was a coincidence.


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#33 Charles Drago

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:36 PM

Frankly, I'm at a loss to imagine why a key player in the ambush would have been anywhere but in a prime position proximal to his station.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#34 Gordon Gray

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:08 PM

If the limo stop was a part of the plan, and I think it had to be, how did the planners insure that Greer would comply, while keeping him in the dark about major aspects of the plan?



#35 Greg Burnham

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

 



First:

 

There was no abort team. That is pure, unadulterated "spy novel" bullshit.

 

I wasn't there so I don't know.  Not a Tosh fan, eh Greg?

 

Tosh said on the EF this was a military unit routinely sent out to various locations.  It makes sense to me to have as many back-up patsies in Dealey as possible.  If such a team existed, they weren't sent to Abort, but to provide "suspects" who might later turn up dead or disappreared.

 

We're not dealing with certainties, certainly, but within the universe of what's plausible.

 

Yes. And that is not plausible.

 

Second:

 

I agree that the idea of having spotters anywhere except (where they belong) next to the shooters is ridiculous.

 

Thank you.

 

Third:

 

I would not discount the clenched fist as it is the universal sign to STOP -- in this case --  a vehicle.

 

Fair enough.

 

Fourth:

 

I suspect that the Umbrella System may have been used to deliver the 46-40 paralytic agent via a flechette dart. (But, it is NOT my pet theory as I don't have one.)

 

Greg, wouldn't a dart system like that only be used in close quarters, in a crowd?

 

I highly suspect Black Dog Man with one of the dart pistols Frank Church displayed in 1975.

 

This is a follow-through on the question that was in the minds of the autopsists with the body in front of them:  was JFK struck with a high-tech round that didn't show up on x-ray?

 

I find it unfortunate that most of the discussion of this goes down the Umbrella Man rabbit hole...

 

No, the umbrella system is not limited to use in close quarters or in a crowd. It is dead-on accurate to over 100 yards--over a football field's length--no matter how many spectators are around.

 

Fifth:

 

Your statement:  --"Rosemary Willis described Louis Witt's actions the same way Louis Witt did" -- begs the question and is therefore fallacious.

 

Fair enough!  I stand corrected -- what I should assert is that Rosemary described UM's actions in a manner consistent with Louis Witt's account.

 

I will concede, however, that Rosemary Willis' description of Umbrella Man's actions is similar to Louis Witt's description Umbrella Man's actions.  However, that does not prove that Louis Witt was Umbrella Man.

 

As goofy as his story is, it makes way more sense to me than the "sinister" actions attributed to him.

 

During the pandemonium that immediately followed the commission of this crime the last thing authorities would expect would be for those in any way involved to "hide in plain sight" by sitting down

on the sidewalk and then calmly walking away. It bears the signature of Tradecraft.

 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#36 Greg Burnham

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:14 AM

Dallas police officers, deputy sheriffs, secret service* personnel, or other "law enforcement" presence.

 

*it was not known until later that no SS were on the ground in DP that day


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#37 Greg Burnham

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:19 PM

Didn't the plotters have other ways of making sure there were no nosy "authorities" snooping around the guy with the umbrella had he departed the scene with due urgency?

 

Wasn't Sheriff Bill Decker told to keep his men out of Dealey, in any official capacity?

 

Why would the plotters fear the Secret Service, knowing full well the only SS ID badges in Dealey were phonies?

 

The Dallas Police Department's regard for the proper wielding of "authority" was spotty, to say the least -- if the Dal-Tex Building wasn't going to be searched by the DPD, why would anyone worry about UM getting rousted?

 

UM sticks around Dealey for awhile.  Doesn't he show up as late as Bond 10, facing east toward the TSBD several minutes after the shooting?

 

And I can't get away from what Rosemary Willis said about him...From the HSCA summaries of her 1978 deposition:

 

 

 

Rosemary's description of UM is inconsistent with a guy about to put a dart in the throat of the Chief Executive.

 

The use of an open umbrella on a windy day is implausible given the pin-point accuracy required and the varagies of the wind.

 

OTOH, Rosemary's description of Black Dog Man is wholly consistent with the actions of a shooter -- hit and get the hell out.

 

Greg, I know Hemming hated Plumlee.  I had a great exchange with Tosh over at the EF.  No doubt what you and I regard as "plausible" in this instance has a lot to do with how much credibility we give -- or don't give -- to these guys.

 

Gerry never told me he hated Plumlee.

 

As for my earlier comment: It was limited to the "abort team" claim. Having said that, still, I have no opinion of Tosh Plumlee. I've never met him and I've never spoken with him.

 

I've spent sufficient time over the years on the UM and the DCM. I am not going to spend too much more here. I am not claiming the umbrella system was used, just that it may have been used.

Col. Prouty is the person who "pitched" the idea of paying for the development of that entire weapon system, including the darts and the various delivery systems, to the Defense Department on

behalf of the CIA. He was one of the first people to ever see it operated in person. He told me that the flechette dart was all but impervious to things such as wind and the like because it was

constantly accelerating as a function of the solid rocket fueled mechanism by which it was powered.

 

As for other potential shooters and locations, including the BDM...it is not a matter of either BDM or UM. It could be both or it could be neither.


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

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#38 Greg Burnham

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 08:07 PM

 

 

I've had exchanges with him that were productive, I felt.  I don't see what's implausible about his account.  A US Army Special Forces unit routinely sent to provide added Presidential protection -- Plumlee called it "an Abort Team," but it makes more sense that they'd provide another layer of patsies.

 

If they were sent to "provide another layer of protection" then that is exactly what he should call it. In fact, that is exactly what Hemming said his team was called to do in Miami. He always said that

he could tell that they would have been patsies if they had gone armed. As it was, none of them had "the means" to effect a hit and so no patsies were left for that opportunity. There is more about

this on the main website.

 

 

 

The problem with using the umbrella would be in taking aim given the swirling wind.  At the corner of Elm and Houston the wind came from the north, but further down Elm St. the wind was from the southwest. I can't see using an open umbrella in gusting winds by a guy who wasn't well positioned as the motorcade approached.

 

Cliff, how many times have you or a "working associate" been to Dealey Plaza at noon in November and measured the speed and direction of the wind? Do you know if those measurements that

you or your "friend" took there reflect the conditions that were present on November 22, 1963 at 12:30? Could you provide the data here because I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Making it up as you go along will not cut it. Thanks.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#39 Greg Burnham

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:01 AM

I have no idea whether Tosh's account is or is not plausible. However, I strongly object to the use of the term "abort team" as employed here.

 

As for the speed and direction of the wind, I suggest that we remain open minded until we have data to support any "wind theory" that would

necessarily preclude the use of the umbrella system. I simply do not have sufficient data to dismiss it at this time. If you are able to produce

evidence in support of your "wind theory" I am open to it.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#40 Greg Burnham

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:27 PM

Yes, I find Gerry's account plausible.

 

I never said I assume Greer's complicity. I'm still developing my ideas further in this regard.

 

"Wind theory" --as I mean it here--is any theory that dismisses the possibility of a weapon being fired due to its [the wind's] presence.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

Forum:

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