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Doug Horne: State of the Medical Evidence


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#1 Admin Staff

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:51 AM

This section will include articles from AssassinationOfJFK.net Research Forum founding member, Douglas P. Horne on the Medical Evidence.

 

Articles will be added here as they are added to the site.

 

 

http://assassination...ial-doug-horne/

 

http://assassinationofjfk.net/the-af1-tapes-and-subsequent-events-at-andrews-afb-on-november-22-1963-what-was-supposed-to-happen-vs-what-did-happen/



#2 Jim Hackett II

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:48 AM

Kudos to Doug Horne for both these articles.

In that I try to reach younger folks to keep the "torch" lit, these articles can open the topic of alteration of the President's body while avoiding the contention issues so often encountered.

 

Facts speak past the disinfo-.

 

A pre-poste mortem alteration of wounds is a demonstration of how powerful were the forces aligned against peace and another President promoting an end to the "Cold-War".

 

Secondly the NPIC commentary of Mr. Dino Brugioni concerning the "timeclock" Z cartoon is further stripping of the Fable to feeble second "fall-back" positions.

 

Too much is known now to let the WC and HSCA stand as our history.

Thanks Mr. Horne

I bet a few copies of your books are going to be sold to younger folks I know.

Children and grandchildren of older researchers NEED the data.

Hell, I need the data as you put up for outreach and affirmation too.

Jim


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#3 Greg Burnham

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:37 AM

Welcome to the Forum, Jim! Good to have you here.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#4 Harold Martin

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:54 AM

Having read Doug Horne's tome on the medical evidence and alterations to JFK's body, I am left wishing that the Dallas doctors had been interviewed individually rather than as a group.

It is not that I question their honesty any more or less than anyone else's, but bringing an unfettered view of each of their experiences in the tragedy might have provided a different incite to the assassination.


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#5 Greg Burnham

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

Having read Doug Horne's tome on the medical evidence and alterations to JFK's body, I am left wishing that the Dallas doctors had been interviewed individually rather than as a group.

It is not that I question their honesty any more or less than anyone else's, but bringing an unfettered view of each of their experiences in the tragedy might have provided a different incite to the assassination.

 

Welcome to the Forum, Harold. It's good to have you. I share your view for several reasons. First, the memory of even the most honest witness can inadvertently be influenced by the

recounting of the same event(s) while in the presence of other witnesses who have already shared their own memory of it. Second, even the questions asked by separate investigators

will tend to be influenced by the questions asked by other investigators while in each other's presence. Third, while it is true that the more emotionally charged the event, the more strongly

it tends to "stick" in the memory of the witnesses, it is also true that males tend to repress or at least suppress emotional expression particularly in public, in front of other males, or in a

group. This emotional suppression has the side effect of dissociation from the memory of the event that generated the emotion being suppressed. Due to this "culturally driven process"

of male emotional suppression, the potential for "data loss" (forgetfulness) increases. Most of the Parkland Hospital witnesses were males. Their collective memory most probably suffered

very little when it came to the most obvious items, such as, the entrance wound to the throat, the huge blowout to the back of the head in the Occipital/Parietal region, among other things

that they did, in fact, remember and have never been in dispute. It is the little things that can "fall through the cracks" and sometimes those little things turn out to not be so little after all.


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#6 Gordon Gray

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:17 AM

I have always felt that the principle reason for these two hastily improvised events, pre autopsy surgery, and Z-film alteration,  was the arrest of LHO. Had that not happened I doubt there would have been concern over evidence of multiple shooters. As long as Oswald was shown to be one of the shooters with links to Castro the plan would have worked. Once arrested they had no guarantees that he wouldn't talk, or even make it to trial, and anything he might say about a conspiracy needed to be negated.



#7 Greg Burnham

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:23 PM

I have always felt that the principle reason for these two hastily improvised events, pre autopsy surgery, and Z-film alteration,  was the arrest of LHO. Had that not happened I doubt there would have been concern over evidence of multiple shooters. As long as Oswald was shown to be one of the shooters with links to Castro the plan would have worked. Once arrested they had no guarantees that he wouldn't talk, or even make it to trial, and anything he might say about a conspiracy needed to be negated.

 

Welcome to the Forum, Gordon! I agree with what you wrote, but perhaps for "other" reasons. I'll leave it at that for now. Glad to have you aboard.


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#8 Doug Horne

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

It is a crying shame that the ARRB, in its final days, did not depose key Dallas treating physicians individually.  I lobbied for this aggressively, and was ignored.  I was also ignored in regard to the venue, which I insisted had to be Washington, D.C., and not Dallas.

 

It is a tragedy of major proportions that they were not deposed in Washington, D.C.---where the ARRB staff would have had ready access to the autopsy photographs.  (The Archives could not deny us access to those materials in Washington, as long as we came to Colleg Park and Archives II to view them.)  The major reason for taking their depositions in the first place, as I argued in writing in February of 1998, was to obtain their testimony under oath as to whether the autopsy photos accurately represented the wounds they observed at Parkland hospital, in Dallas.  Both the Warren Commission and the HSCA pointedly refused to show the Dallas doctors and nurses the autopsy photos.  The HSCA, well-aware of the serious discrepancies between the Parkland and Bethesda accounts of JFK's wounds, inexplicably failed in its duty when it decided (for reasons only Robert Blakey can explain) NOT to show the Dallas treating physicians the autopsy photos and question them about the wounds shown in those images.  It seems to me, based on my research, to have been willful ignorance, and avoidance of the truth, on the part of Blakey.  If the Dallas doctors had testified under oath to the HSCA about how different the wounds in the autopsy photos were, compared to the wounds they witnessed immediately after the shooting, it would have been impossible, I believe, for Blakey and Billings (his co-author in writing the HSCA report) to get away with dismissing their recollections as incorrect, as collective error (which is nevertheless what he actually did).

 

The issue is crucial because Humes and Boswell maintained, under oath to the ARRB staff, that the autopsy photos showing JFK's head in the metal stirrup or brace (and showing massive damage to the top of the head and to the right side of the head forward of, and above, the right ear) were all taken before they made any incisions.  This untruth would have been exposed as the perjury it was if the ARRB could have asked the Dallas doctors about the wounds shown in the autopsy photos.

 

Ron Haron, the ARRB attorney in charge of the Dallas depositions, removed himself at his own request at the last moment from that project, because he was unfamiliar with the medical evidence and knew he was "in over his head."  The surprise is that Jeremy Gunn, who had already resigned under mysterious circumstances, allowed himself to be recalled for that one task (deposing the Dallas doctors), in spite of the fact that a group deposition violated every principle involved in properly deposing different witnesses to the same event.  Jeremy Gunn was a perfectionist, and was an experienced deposition attorney prior to coming to the ARRB, and I am surprised he agreed to perform that group deposition given those flawed circumstances.

 

Ron Haron allowed the venue to shift from Washington, D.C. to Dallas because a couple of the Dallas doctors became grumpy and decided they would rather not travel to D.C.  I warned Ron that if he allowed the venue to change from Washington to Dallas, that the Archives might not allow the autopsy photos to travel to the deposition site.  He didn't believe me.  Steve Tilley (who ran the JFK Records Collection at the Archives), together with Burke Marshall (the Kennedy family watchdog), refused to allow them to travel to Dallas for the joint deposition of the Dallas physicians.  Tilley even bragged about it afterwards to George Lardner, Jr. of the Washington Post---I was there at the Post's offices when that phone call took place.  I was right, and Ron Haron was wrong.  I think he realized that such a joint deposition, without the autopsy photographs present, was going to become an academic exercise, for the most part---an exercise in futility.  This is surely one of the reasons he withdrew from the project.

 

I wrote about this FUBAR in some detail in chapter 9 of my book (in volume III), for those who want to examine all of the sordid circumstances of this, the greatest failure of the ARRB.  END



#9 Gordon Gray

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:44 PM

In the video Interview with Jones and McClelland,  McClelland said they called the Parkland doctors to Washington and had them view the photos separately. At that time they said the archive photos agreed with what the remembered. seeing in the emergency room that day. Were they shown different photos than the ones we see today or were they going along to get along?



#10 Adele Edisen

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:21 AM

I have a question for Doug Horne:

 

Doug, I remember from the Clay Shaw trial brouht by Jim Garrison in New Orleans that Pierre Finck who was

one of the three pathologists performing the autopsy on President Kennedy's body at Bethesda Naval Hospital,

was asked who was in charge of the proceedings.  Finck didn't know the name, but said it was a US Army General.

I understand there were quite a number of spectators and military personnel at the autopsy, but could, or would,

you know or guess who he might have been referring to?   Admiral Kenney, Surgeon General of the Navy, I thought,

would have been in charge, but apparently not, according to Finck.



#11 Jim Hackett II

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 05:10 AM

It would be natural to think the Commanding Admiral of Bethesda would be 'in command', however on that level of power who knows?

Same to my thinking for Admiral Kenney as Surgeon General.

 

But this was not SOP for any autopsy let alone one of a seated President of this United States.

With alteration now documented the flying monkeys were loosed long ago.

 

Max Taylor?

Curt Le May? O'Connor later exposed him as present. I have to imagine to gloat over the fruit of his desires.

 

Looking forward to Mr. Horne's input as always.

The HSCA had Gaeton Fonzi

and the ARRB had Doug Horne to try to speak for us - wethepeople that is.

Jim

Be The Change



#12 Guest_Roger DeLaria_*

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 01:48 PM

I know this doesn't really apply to the thread, I'm not sure where to put it, but found it an interesting bit anyway, so Greg feel free to move it to the correct area.

 

My father was a career man in the Air Force for 20yrs('53-'73), and told me a story about how he met Curt Lemay one time. I don't know what base it was at, or what year, but Lemay was visiting and my father was guarding his plane with a unloaded gun, at his superior's orders. Lemay came by and stopped to talk my dad, and during the conversation asked to see his gun and wanted to know why it was unloaded. My dad responded by his superior's orders, Lemay asked who that was, finished the conversation, and went on his way. The next day his superior was relieved and no longer there.






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