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The wallet at the Tippit murder scene


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#1 William Burghardt

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 05:43 PM

I am sure this has been discussed but this is my first post here and I really feel this is important.

 

Recently, it was proven that the Oswald wallet "left" at the Tippit 
shooting was in fact the wallet that exists in the archives. 

This wallet has been denied as existing by the LN community since it was 
first raised as an issue. 

Now it has to be dealt with and no one on the LN side is doing so. 

A wallet was taken off Oswald on the "way in" by the Dallas police with 
the Hidell and Oswald IDs in that wallet. 

NOW.... another wallet with both the Oswald and Hidell IDs was proved to 
be found at the Tippit shooting site. 

The officer in the WFAA Television tape holding the wallet and the man who 
asked "Have you ever heard of a Lee Oswald or Alek Hidell" is Capt. 
Westbrook. 

Captain Westbrook later went to Vietnam as an "advisor" ... it appears he 
was CIA. My hypothesis shared by many others is he brought that wallet to 
the site of the Tippit shooting. Then, when another wallet was taken off 
Oswald on the "way in", the Westbrook wallet had to go away. Too much. 
Looks like a frame up. 

Now we know the wallet in the archives is the wallet Westbrook was 
holding. 

Anyone want to explain this? 

Burgundy 

Here is the report regarding this:https://www.youtube....d&v=M3Y-KiNYT9M

 

 

 


Wallet mystery from Officer Tippit's murder settled 50 years later 
wfaa.com 

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#2 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:38 AM

Do you know what time it was when Westbrook asked the first arriving FBI agent on the scene if he knew of Oswald and/or Hidell? My guess is 1:16-20.

#3 William Burghardt

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

The interesting thing is no one seems to have "discovered" the wallet, lying under the car, until Westbrook gets there (I don't know the exact time but it may have been as late as 130pm).. If it was laying there, why wasn't it reported immediately? My theory is Westbrook brought it with him BUT when they found a wallet on Oswald going into the station removed by Bentley... well, then the Tippit scene wallet had to go away. Too many wallets. Looks Like A Big Set UP. And FBI agent Barrett, who Westbrook asked, "you know a lot of guys around here Bob ever hear of Lee Harvey Oswald or Alek Hidell?" , didn't say anything until Bentley passed away. And now he's coming out and saying Bentley's version is hogwash, as seen on the WFAA tape. This is a major revelation.



#4 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:54 PM

Westbrook asks the FBI agent if he knows of a Lee Harvey Oswald or a Alek Hidell. Hidell is the key here, that shows there were two wallets (three if you count the one Oswald allegedly left with Marina). If it is 1:30(ish) as you say, and the DPD - officially - doesnt know the name Hidell until they arrest him at 1:51 (or even later) then how can Westbrook ask the FBI agent (this scene is corroborated with Hosty) about the name Hidell? What I dont understand, why did they admit to have confiscated the second wallet from Oswald at the arrest? Had they not done that, they could of said they found it at the Tippit scene.

But I guess it would of been too much: Oswald "the cop killer" littering the crime scene with shell casings, wallet with IDs and white jacket with zipper!



#5 William Burghardt

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

So who is Westbrook? According to the Armstrong Harvey/Lee cite there is a 
strong indication he may have been CIA. 

According to Armstrong... 

QUOTE ON: 

While (LEE) Oswald was hiding in the balcony, and (HARVEY) Oswald was 
sitting in the 4th row in the lower level, Captain Westbrook allegedly 
found a wallet at the scene of Tippit's murder. There was a wallet and it 
contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and Alek Hidell, including 
a Texas drivers license for Lee Harvey Oswald. FBI agent Bob Barrett saw 
the wallet and WFAA-TV took newsreel film of the wallet. Who found the 
wallet? 


(On the website, a frame from WFAA newsreel footage is shown). 

Eight or nine people walked to Tippit's patrol car and saw him lying on 
the street. Two ambulance attendants removed Tippit's body. Numerous DPD 
officers arrived at the scene before Westbrook arrived.  But none of these 
people, not one civilian witness, not the ambulance attendants, not any of 
the trained police officers, reported seeing a wallet laying on an 
otherwise empty street. Without proof that someone, anyone, found the 
wallet and handed it to Capt. Westbrook there is a distinct possibility 
that Westbrook brought the wallet to the scene of Tippit's murder. After 
the assassination, Capt. Westbrook retired from the Dallas Police and 
served as a special advisor to the police in South Vietnam (nearly all 
"special advisors" to the police in Vietnam were CIA connected). 

A DPD dispatch at 1:33 PM: "w/m/30 5'8", very slender build, black hair, a 
white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks." A DPD dispatch at 1:45 PM: 
"Have information a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West 
Jefferson ... supposed to be hiding in balcony." As police began to 
descend on the Texas Theater they were told by a "young female" (probably 
Julia Postal) that the man was in the balcony. As several DPD officers 
began searching the balcony Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson came face to face 
with a young man who was walking down the stairs to the lobby. Courson 
said, "that he was reasonably satisfied in his own mind" that this man was 
(LEE) Oswald. While Courson was walking up the front stairs to the 
balcony, the police, and Captain Westbrook, were entering the main floor 
from the rear entrance. The last DPD dispatch reported the suspect was 
wearing a white shirt, white jacket, and was in the balcony. The suspect 
(LEE Oswald) in the balcony was wearing a white t-shirt, but had left his 
light colored jacket under a car at Ballew's T exaco Station. 

HARVEY Oswald, wearing a long-sleeved brown shirt, is arrested 

Captain Westbrook apparently told DPD officers at 10th & Patton that Lee 
Harvey Oswald was a suspect. Inside the darkened theater Tommy Rowe (not 
Johnny Brewer), directed the police to the man wearing the long sleeved 
dark shirt--HARVEY Oswald. Rowe was a close friend of Jack Ruby and worked 
at the shoe store with Brewer. The police soon arrested and handcuffed 
(HARVEY) Oswald. Capt. Westbrook told the officers "get him out of here as 
fast as you can and don't let anybody see him." DON'T LET ANYBODY SEE 
HIM!!  Why? 

As HARVEY Oswald was taken out the front of the theater a DPD officer told 
Julia Postal, "we have our man on both counts." Julia said this was the 
first time she heard of Tippit's death and the officers arresting Oswald 
had identified him by calling his name --- "Oswald" (interview with Julia 
Postal by SA Carter 2/28/64).  Several police officers knew the name of 
their suspect before leaving 10th & Patton, thanks to Captain Westbrook. 
Three police officers were ordered to obtain the names and addresses of 
all theater patrons. This list soon disappeared, and the possibility of 
learning the identity of Oswald's contact at the theater, and the identity 
of the man confronted by Deputy Sheriff Courson, disappeared with it. 

(HARVEY) Oswald, wearing a brown shirt, was brought out the front entrance 
of the Texas Theater, placed in a police car and driven to jail. Paul 
Bentley removed (HARVEY) Oswald's wallet from his left rear pocket en 
route to the DPD headquarters (along with Officers Carrol, Hill, Walker 
and Lyons) and found identification for "Lee Harvey Oswald" and "A. J. 
Hidell"--similar to the identification found in the wallet that was left 
at the Tippit murder scene. The Dallas Police were now in possession of 
two wallets, both containing ID for Lee Harvey Oswald. These two wallets 
could have created serious problems if properly identified as evidence and 
reported. It should come as no surprise that Capt. Westbrook's wallet 
disappeared, after DPD Capt. Fritz gave it to FBI agent Hosty on 11/27/63, 
and one of the Oswalds (LEE) disappeared as well. For a thorough 
discussion of how the FBI and the Dallas Police deliberately mishandled 
this evidence, read John Armstrong's 1997 Dallas Conference speech (linked 
on the home page). 

NOTE: There were a total of five Oswald wallets: a black plastic wallet 
(CE 1798); a red billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #382); a brown 
billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #114); a billfold taken from LHO 
upon arrest--initialed by HMM (Henry Moore), wallet and contents 
inventoried and photographed; and the Westbrook wallet, which was not 
initialed by police, not listed in inventory, not photographed, not 
mentioned by a single witness to the WC, HSCA, ARRB, etc. and disappeared, 
but not before is was filmed by WFAA TV and seen by FBI agent Barrett. 

As (HARVEY) Oswald was en route to the police station, Bernard Haire, 
owner of a hobby shop two doors from the theater, saw the police escort a 
man out the rear of the theater. For the next 25 years Mr. Haire and other 
witnesses thought they had seen the arrest of Oswald. But there is no 
police report, no record of arrest, nor any mention of a person taken out 
the rear of the theater. There are, however, many police reports that 
state Oswald was arrested in the balcony. The police homicide report of 
Tippit's murder read, "suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the 
Texas neater at 231 W. Jefferson." 

 See the Dallas Police Homicide Report for "Tippitt, JD" 

At least two other DPD documents make the same "error." In his report to 
Captain Gannaway, Dallas Police Detective L.D. Stringfellow wrote: "On 
November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the 
Texas Theater, 231 West Jefferson Blvd and was charged with the murder of 
President John F. Kennedy and the murder of Officer JD Tippit." How could 
several experienced, career police officers make such a mistake? 

QUOTE OFF 

Armstrong's site is at: 

http://harveyandlee....November_22.htm

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#6 Greg Burnham

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:33 AM

Welcome to the Forum, William. Armstrong's work on the Lee Harvey Oswald doppelgänger is probably the most thorough volume on the documentation ever compiled.


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#7 Gordon Gray

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:07 PM

Simple question. Does the wallet in the archives have Moore's initials on it? If it does then it was taken off Oswald. If it doesn't then it was Westbrook's plant wallet. The MC in the Archives BTW, is not the same one as the one found on the 6th floor that day



#8 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:38 AM

I have read that there were actually 5 wallets! Dont know if that is really true, but there were at least 3 wallets: one that Oswald allegedly left with Marina in the morning, then the one found on him at the arrest, and then the Westbrook wallet allegedly found at the Tippit scene. It surley looks like one hand doesnt know what the other is doing here. The question is, why didnt they claim Oswalds real wallet was the Westbrook wallet instead of the wallet at the arrest? But I suppose it would of been too much with "Oswald dropping his wallet and his shell casings at the scene and even the jacket near the scene". With that kind of stupid criminal behaviour he should be on the TV series "Dumbest Criminals" or something.



#9 Gordon Gray

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:23 PM

Could Wetbrooke have planted the wallet on Oswald at the time of his arrest inside the theatre. It's not like LHO was in a position to prevent him form doing so. and perhaps he didn't have one on him at the time, having left his with Marina. . Afterward the planted wallet was taken from LHO in the car on the way to the station. The primary purpose of the wallet was to connect Oswald to Hidell to the MC.



#10 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:39 PM

Yes, and perhaps to the Tippit scene, but then they scrapped the Westbrook wallet.

#11 Gordon Gray

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:01 AM

Did they scrap the Westbrooke wallet? Does the wallet in the archives bear Moore's initials?



#12 Staffan H Westerberg

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:44 AM

That I dont know, but I dont think there are two wallets in evidence!

#13 Bill Simpich

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:53 AM

You might appreciate the wallet article posted on the 21st at Jeff Morley's site, entitled "Who Found Oswald's Wallet?"  jfkfacts.org

 

I'm with you guys, I think the wallet question is big.



#14 Donald Manning

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:15 AM

 

Now we know the wallet in the archives is the wallet Westbrook was 
holding. 


Here is the report regarding this:https://www.youtube....d&v=M3Y-KiNYT9M

 

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There are clearly many similarities but can you not spot a small difference between the wallet in the B/W footage and the one photographed at the archives? 



#15 Liam Kelly

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:29 PM

For me, there remains no real evidence that it was Oswalds wallet.
Barrets memory was always vague about the IDs themselves.

 

In fact Barrett said (paraphrasing) .”if it wasn’t Oswalds wallet then why did Capt Westbrook ask me about the names?”

 

In otherwords he didn’t see the IDs.

 

He was sure he was asked about the names but that could have easily been back at the
station.

In other words he could be mistaken.

I would have thought that ANYONE who actually READ  the name Lee Harvey Oswald or Alec Hidel in a wallet at the Tippit murder scene would remember it for life!.
But…no one does! And no one claims to..not even Barret.
And…not one policeman put it in a report ..not one.


Kenneth Croy was questioned in detail by the Warren Commission – he never said a word about it.


As I say..no one has claimed to have seen the IDs at the scene.

And if it wasn’t Oswalds then im sure the DPD and FBI would not want that pesky wallet identifying someone else at the scene!.....good gracious no!!

Either way it disappeared.

 

We have, in fact, two seemingly different accounts about what Croy said in later years.
In 1990, in an interview with researcher Jones Harris, Harris said that Croy told him he never saw the contents of any wallet.
This account comes from George W Bailey (http://oswaldsmother...lee-harvey.html)  who said he heard this directly from Jones Harris.
Dale Myers asserts that Croy told him in 2009 that he saw 7 IDs and not one belonged to Oswald.
So, how do we verify any of this?...we cant, Croy died in 2009.(if memory serves me correctly)

In this case no one can say that Croy did not say these things.So we have a problem.
Is Croy being inconsistant or is one of the researches telling stories?
Well, I know this much...that Croy's Warren Comission testimony is muddled and inconsistant.
I know that Jones Harris has jumped the gun before and announced things innacurately.
And I have seen Dayle Myers play fast and loose with logic.
So I can only tell you what I think based on what I've read and my own thinking.

It was Harris who claimed to news media while working on Jim Garrisons case that he had uncovered a direct link to Shaw.
The claim was kinda stretching the truth but he made it anyway.(referring to the supposed PO number in both Oswalds and Clay Shaws address book)
Now I personally think that Dale Myers has done some good work on the Tippit murder, but  that’s as far as it goes with Myers.

As for Rookstool, he must be blind and thats why I dont put any stock in his supposed discovery.
The wallet in the archives is not the one filmed at the tippit crime scene.
I am happy to accept Myers rebutting of Rookstool here (http://jfkfiles.blog...et-mystery.html)



Lets look at the main possibilties and see how likely they are:

1: The wallet was Tippits.

We know it wasn’t, Tippits was at the hospital with him and the wallets are different

2: The wallet at the scene was Oswalds
So, Oswald handed Tipit a wallet with two ID's in it.I dont accept that Oswald would have been that stupid when he could have just taken out a card.
So, Oswald dropped it.No one saw a struggle, no one saw him fall over , and a wallet is not easy to loose like that.
Ok, so earth shattering evidence of Oswalds guilt is found and then dissappears and not a single witness (seeing Oswalds ID) is found....not one then
(witness statements, commission testimonies, police reports) and not one since.(researches etc)
Remember ...not one person said they read Lee Harvey Oswalds ID in the wallet...not even Croy said he did.

So again..not one person has said they saw Oswalds ID at the scene.
How likely is that the prosecutions 'star exhibit one' in the Tippit murder case would suffer that much neglect?
Extremely unlikely in my view.
And of course the DPD said his ID was taken from his person which I think is  more likely.
To believe that Oswalds wallet was found at the scene you have to believe:
1: that Oswald was stupid enough to give it to Tippit knowing that it contained incriminating stuff in (2 ids, FPCC references etc, a selective service card which would be obvious to a cop that it was forged because it had a photo...etc)
2: that for some reason the Dallas police didnt want anyone to know that they had such an astoundingly convincing piece of evidence or
that the Dallas police didnt want anyone to know for some other reason, or that they just simply lost it and decided they better say nothing..in which case where did the final 'real' one come from?
3: That Bentley and others including Rose and Stoval lied.
4: That Barrets recollection of being asked a question somehow definatively proves that the wallet was Oswalds regardless.
5: That the police at the scene who saw the contents of the wallet didnt think it important enough to put in their reports.

None of which I accept just on the basis of probability and logic alone.

The wallet in the archives has specific differences from the one in the news reel.

I propose one simple explanation and that is the wallet at the scene was not Oswalds.
That way I only have to wonder who's wallet it was.
Knowing full well that there are plenty of murder cases where a piece of evidence possibly exhonerating the suspect, has been ignored or hidden, just because the police have decided they have their man,  I have to conclude that any wallet at the scene that did not have LHO's ID in it  was either unimportant to the Dallas police, irrelevant  or very, very inconvenient.

This is just my judgement.
I would be perfectly happy to accept a credible alternative, but I just havent seen one yet.

And so, although it still remains a mystery,  I believe the wallet at the scene was not Oswalds.

 

(Which, of course, could be precisely the reason it disappeared!)






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