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Adulterous Or Fictitious?


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#1 Guest_Darren Hastings_*

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 07:31 AM

It doesn't take much searching to come across articles, documentaries and other references to JFK as a sex addict and philanderer.

Exhibit A -
http://nypost.com/20...idents-women-3/

I've read somewhere some time ago that much of this is fictitious...I suppose a motive could be to paint the dead president as of weak character, reckless, a bad husband and therefore less public anger at what happened? The above article was written in 2013 -- if it's BS why continue this 50 years after?

Does anyone know if a complete study of these allegations has been undertaken to either prove or disprove?
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#2 Charles Drago

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 09:27 AM

Ask one-handed typist Robert Morrow, aka Willie Wanker.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#3 Greg Burnham

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 01:36 PM

I have not come across anything credible that supports this notion, Darren. There has been trash talk about it for decades. It is irrelevant in any event.

 

You ask:  "If it's BS why continue this 50 years after?" 

 

Well, why not also ask:

 

"If the single bullet theory is BS why continue it 50 years after?"

 

"If the story about JFK refusing air cover for the Bay of Pigs is BS why continue it 50 years after?"

 

"If the allegation that JFK started US involvement in Vietnam is BS why continue it 50 years after?"


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#4 Guest_Darren Hastings_*

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 03:47 PM

All very good points, Greg.
I'll continue the search!

#5 Greg Burnham

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 09:00 AM

How do such ill-founded rumors get started? Are they targeted attempts at post mortem character assassination or innocuous eavesdropping misunderstandings?

 

CanYouSayPoney.jpg


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#6 Kenneth Drew

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 09:56 PM

How do such ill-founded rumors get started? Are they targeted attempts at post mortem character assassination or innocuous eavesdropping misunderstandings?

 

CanYouSayPoney.jpg

Post Mortem?  I remember hearing about many of his escapades both during the election and after, up until the assassination.  It is known that Jackie Kennedy had affairs with several movie stars as 'retaliation'.    So no, this is not post mortem bashing.  As JFK was known to say, where there's fire, there's a smoke making machine. 



#7 Greg Burnham

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 12:01 AM

Please do not allude to innuendo that you allegedly heard. Provide something of substance that supports your assertion and even if true, which I highly doubt, establishes its relevance to our area of inquiry.

 

Also cite the source of this quote that you have attributed to JFK: "Where there's fire, there's a smoke making machine." -- Stop making it up as you go along.

 

You claimed: "It is known that Jackie Kennedy had affairs with several movie stars as retaliation." Retaliation against whom and for what, pray tell? List these "many movie stars" by name and provide PROOF for your claim.

 

This topic belongs in a tabloid not on a serious research forum.

 

A word to the wise.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#8 Phil Dragoo

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 02:48 AM

I remember hearing.

 

And hearsay is inadmissable.

 

Regarding Seymour Hersh, Jim DiEugenio deconstructs his smears in a two part ctka article:

 

The Posthumous Assassination of JFK
Judith Exner, Mary Meyer, and Other Daggers
By James DiEugenio

 

http://www.ctka.net/pr997-jfk.html

 

The Posthumous Assassination of JFK Part II
Sy Hersh and the Monroe/JFK Papers:
The History of a Thirty-Year Hoax
By James DiEugenio

 

http://www.copi.com/...pr1197_jfk.html

 

I submit the efforts of such propagandists is to further a "he deserved it" attitude, along with the other slanders Greg mentions above.

 

Doug Horne corrects the record regarding his "war with the national security establishment".

 

Donald Gibson presents domestic opponents in Battling Wall Street: The Kennedy Presidency, 1994.

 

The slanderers do not wish us to consider the man's opposition to CIA as a be-all and end-all in conducting covert foreign intrigue of the kind Truman lamented in his December 1963 editorial.

 

Nor his EO 11110 taking of the Fed's royal privilege to make money out of thin air and distribute it to the oligarchy today so denounced.

 

Nor his refusal to waste tens of thousands of U.S. lives and incinerate a subcontinent for Brown & Root and the interests of Kissinger's secret client list.

 

Or his embrace of Third World nonalignment, or integration--oh, he was a n-lover, I know, for I heard it.

 

He reached out to Khrushchev and Khrushchev responded--and the hardliners of both countries slander both men.

 

And now we have a constitutional republic without a constitution or an Article II president.

 

Media perverts like Hersh are the Madonna, the Lady Gaga, the Miley Cyrus twerkers, rodeo clowns for the cabal.

 

Carny barkers like Posner, Bugliosi, McAdams, Dunkel et al along a sawdust midway lining Elm Street

 

Hersh--oh, if he could only have used those wonderful diaries showing the contract Marilyn had with Jack and Bobby

 

Just look on the CIA website and see the wonderful working relationship Kennedy and Dulles had

 

Just as Dulles explained to Houston how he'd changed Truman's mind

 

The world is as Gates explained to Leahy, "Senator, all governments lie to each other--it's how business gets done."

 

A tale told by the victors, their shrieking fairies and carping harpies.

 

". . .that little Kennedy. . .he thought he was a god. . . ."

 

And now that Angletonian liar is in hell

 

with the other honorable men

 

Remember:  He who

 

steals my purse

 

steals trash

 

2ursfet.jpg

 

Allen Dulles' lover Bancroft and Ruth Paines mother--

 

a world quite outré enough without embroidery.

 

 

 

 


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#9 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 05:29 AM

It doesn't take much searching to come across articles, documentaries and other references to JFK as a sex addict and philanderer.

Exhibit A -
http://nypost.com/20...idents-women-3/

I've read somewhere some time ago that much of this is fictitious...I suppose a motive could be to paint the dead president as of weak character, reckless, a bad husband and therefore less public anger at what happened? The above article was written in 2013 -- if it's BS why continue this 50 years after?

Does anyone know if a complete study of these allegations has been undertaken to either prove or disprove?

 

 A concise, world-class example of deep political analysis:

 

" ... if it's BS why continue this 50 years after?"

 

An unambiguous statement of deep political research priorities:   

 

"Does anyone know if a complete study of these allegations has been undertaken to either prove or disprove?"

 

Yet this stone remains in our shoe.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#10 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 05:42 AM

Post Mortem?  I remember hearing about many of his escapades both during the election and after, up until the assassination.  It is known that Jackie Kennedy had affairs with several movie stars as 'retaliation'.    So no, this is not post mortem bashing.  As JFK was known to say, where there's fire, there's a smoke making machine. 

 

And this little fellow makes our previous subject look like Peter Dale Scott.

 

I might add that, before anyone accuses me of favoring argumenta ad hominem over presentations of fact and reason, please indicate where either of those qualities is present in the work of the correspondents I reference.

 

I wonder if John Hinckley has heard that these guys are having affairs with Jodie Foster?


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#11 Greg Burnham

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 06:31 AM

Charles,

 

Have you ever been to the circus? Me too, but not as an adult.

 

One of my favorite spectacles as a child was watching the clowns masquerade as high-wire walkers in their big shoes, heavy make-up and light bulb shaped noses. They would teeter and totter, lean to and fro, take a half dozen quick steps forward then stop abruptly and retreat from whence they came. Eventually they would make it across to the delight and relief of the immature observing crowd of youngsters.

 

As an adult, should I ever see such a spectacle again, such as that which is now metaphorically present on this forum, I would tend to set one end of the wire ablaze...so I may watch the clowns dance just before they fall.

 

Hemming must have rubbed off on me. Rather than kill a fly with a swatter, he preferred capturing it and pulling off its little wings just to watch it hop around for awhile. But similar to our present company, their dance dies ugly.

 

Three days before graduating from college our Philosophy professor sagely opined, "It's like what the monkey said after cutting its tail off with a lawnmower, 'It won't be long now.'"

 

Indeed it won't. If only I could find those damn matches...


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#12 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 07:22 AM

Greg,

 

You know what they say about men with big feet and big hands ... 

 

They make GREAT clowns!


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#13 Guest_Darren Hastings_*

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 08:59 AM

I began typing out a justification for my original post (titled "Adulterous or Fictitious" and placed in the Disinformation & Propaganda section) but a few paragraphs in it dawned on me that, to you guys, it doesn't matter what my motive for the thread was (or whether I thought it interesting to explore the assassination of JFK which occurred after his physical slaying). You guys don't care, you just want to bully and pick on people. Does it help you feel superior?

News flash: playing gang ups and forming cliques was supposed to cease at the end of primary school. This was an honest thread started with good intention.

I don't know what your end game is and I don't really care either. I'm here to share and learn. I've no pre-pubescent agenda.

I'm not going to allow myself to be bullied by anyone or made to feel inferior. And Charles, if being adept at Deep Political Analysis renders one rude and socially retarded then I'll chose my current skill set thanks. The only thing in your shoe is your decency and tolerance towards your fellow man.

I appreciate those links to James DiEugenio's work, Phil. Many thanks. Again :)

#14 Greg Burnham

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 10:52 AM

Darren,

 

I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt. I have that luxury as my finger is set on the nuke button, which can be pressed at any moment. Borrowing from JFK's attitude toward that which is for me a simple metaphor, but for any President is real, instructs my choice to give you the benefit of the doubt. JFK did not need to fear delaying or refusing to nuke because he knew he could exercise that option at any time should it become necessary. However, once done, it is irreversible.

 

As for the topics you wish to explore by making your inquiry here, all I can say is "THINK man, THINK" before you post. (See? I'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt).

 

I shall now, while still choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt, describe in impeccably logical terms, why some of your posts are poorly reasoned--irrespective of your intent and irrespective of your manners--as well as irrespective of your cries of "Foul or Not Fair!" Note that I did not call YOU a name in my criticism. That would be ad hominem. But your posts are fair game.

 

1) I will start with the latter example of fallacious argumentation for emphasis. You are committing the fallacy known as: "Tu Quoque," which means that instead of answering the challenge to your argument by defending it, you reverse positions with the critic in order to avoid defending your argument properly. You would prefer to discuss the critic's "method" of criticism rather than properly defend your original assertion. After having frustrated that critic, who may have indeed made a sound argument in rebuttal to your position as well as presented it in a "hostility neutral" form originally, you then harp on the critic's subsequent expression of frustration notwithstanding the fact that you evoked--deliberately or not--such a response. Indeed, over time it makes no difference if it was deliberate or not. Where there is a pattern of abuse of logic and of language it remains intolerable. If this was the first occurrence of the pattern it might be different. It is not. You are at least a dozen iterations into it by now.

 

2) You did not simply ask for direction to guide you to sources in order to aid you in conducting your OWN research of the subject. Nor did your opening post state that these are, in fact, post mortem character assassinations and that they are false, or at least unsubstantiated. So you cannot now claim you chose the "Propaganda and disinformation" section because that is where this sort of thing belongs. If that was your point you should have made it, but you didn't. Instead, you raised the possibility that the allegations might even be true!

 

3) You opted to pose an innocuously disguised question in the form of a CHALLENGE. If that was not bad enough, in terms of lacking merit, this is: It is a fallacious inquiry from the start. You are committing the logical fallacy colloquially referred to as: "Asking a loaded question."  Your initial inquiry has an assumption built into it that is demonstrably fallacious and is quite obvious. Namely, you imply that "Stories are not repeated for 50 years if they are not true." However, when you made that assumption, you did so in the form of a question. This is usually designed to successfully "mask" the true intent of the device being employed...amongst lesser minds that is. But it won't work here...deliberately done or not.

 

4) You continually commit the fallacy of "Appeal to emotion" in an apparent attempt to garner pity for your self inflicted plight. You also employ it to evoke "guilt" by labeling your critics as "bullies" and such. All the while you succeed in resisting having to defend the position that you originally promoted, which drew the harsh criticism in the first place. You are not an innocent bystander here, Darren. Please refrain from pretending otherwise. BTW: Labeling your critics as "bullies" is an ad hominem particularly when you refuse to engage in a logically sound discourse of deep political insight in defense of YOUR original assertions.

 

5) Of course, Mr. Drew commits multiple fallacies, as well. The least of which is called "The bandwagon." But we're not talking about him...yet.

 

I suggest you become better acquainted with the rules of logic prior to responding. Below, I have supplied, at no additional charge, a list of common fallacies. See how many you can avoid in the future.

 

Fallacies.jpg


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

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#15 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 02:52 PM

I began typing out a justification for my original post (titled "Adulterous or Fictitious" and placed in the Disinformation & Propaganda section) but a few paragraphs in it dawned on me that, to you guys, it doesn't matter what my motive for the thread was (or whether I thought it interesting to explore the assassination of JFK which occurred after his physical slaying). You guys don't care, you just want to bully and pick on people. Does it help you feel superior?

News flash: playing gang ups and forming cliques was supposed to cease at the end of primary school. This was an honest thread started with good intention.

I don't know what your end game is and I don't really care either. I'm here to share and learn. I've no pre-pubescent agenda.

I'm not going to allow myself to be bullied by anyone or made to feel inferior. And Charles, if being adept at Deep Political Analysis renders one rude and socially retarded then I'll chose my current skill set thanks. The only thing in your shoe is your decency and tolerance towards your fellow man.

I appreciate those links to James DiEugenio's work, Phil. Many thanks. Again :)

 

You don't need anyone to make you feel inferior to the best minds here.  You do a fine job all by yourself.

 

And you, dear Greg, are a far more patient man than I am.

 

The way I see it: If a man shoots you in the head because he believes that, in so doing, he will cure you of your migraine headaches, you still end up fucking dead.

 

In other words, motive here is irrelevant.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#16 Greg Burnham

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 07:28 PM

In other words, motive here is irrelevant.

 

I thought I said that.


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Greg Burnham
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

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#17 Kenneth Drew

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 07:33 PM

Please do not allude to innuendo that you allegedly heard. Provide something of substance that supports your assertion and even if true, which I highly doubt, establishes its relevance to our area of inquiry.

 

Also cite the source of this quote that you have attributed to JFK: "Where there's fire, there's a smoke making machine." -- Stop making it up as you go along.

 

You claimed: "It is known that Jackie Kennedy had affairs with several movie stars as retaliation." Retaliation against whom and for what, pray tell? List these "many movie stars" by name and provide PROOF for your claim.

 

This topic belongs in a tabloid not on a serious research forum.

 

A word to the wise.

First let me apologize for my comments.  My intent was only to comment on statements already made on this thread.  I certainly have no first hand knowledge of any sexual affairs by either JFK or Jackie Kennedy.  I will say that lists of persons claimed are certainly available on line, but I will not quote any, because as I said, I have no personal knowledge.  As for the statement about 'smoke making machine',  "Someone once warned President Kennedy that "where there's smoke, there's fire." Without missing a beat, Kennedy replied, "Sometimes, where there's smoke, there's a smoke-making machine." I first heard that statement at least 50 years ago. http://www.capecodti...INION/908280335

If you want any further info, just ask and I will respond.  I certainly am not trying to test your patience in my first week here.  I'm looking forward to participating in meaningful subjects. 



#18 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 08:00 PM

I certainly have no first hand knowledge of any sexual affairs by either JFK or Jackie Kennedy.  I will say that lists of persons claimed are certainly available on line, but I will not quote any, because as I said, I have no personal knowledge. 

 

Yet you wrote, "It is known that Jackie Kennedy had affairs with several movie stars as 'retaliation' [for her husband's affairs].  So no, this is not post mortem bashing.  As JFK was known to say, where there's fire, there's a smoke making machine."

 

Do you have "first hand knowledge" of JFK making the fire/smoke comment?

 

Do you understand the meaning of "first hand knowledge"?

 

Your evasions, like your apologies, are unconvincing.  

 

If sexual innuendo is all that you can bring to this forum, you would be well advised to leave and to GOOGLE "Robert Morrow" in your search for an appropriate circle.  

 

 


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#19 Charles Drago

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 08:01 PM

I thought I said that.

 

I thought I heard you say it.


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#20 Guest_Darren Hastings_*

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 08:47 PM

I wonder if John Hinckley has heard that these guys are having affairs with Jodie Foster?


The is an example of deep political insight I assume. You're a waste of time, Dragon. Go back to pondering something deep like why cows sleep standing up, I'm busy preparing my nuclear holocaust bunker and studying common interwebs fallacies here! :lol:




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