Jump to content


Photo

Cuban Missile Crisis


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Jim Hackett II

Jim Hackett II

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 27 March 2014 - 04:52 PM

A missing topic. I do not know enough to say much.

I know the entire establishement of the department of Defense opposed all options except take 'em out throughout the events.

 

What the President stated was a win, the Pentagon Elite took this win as defeat, capitulation and shickenchit.

 

I know that Miller Center data is bogus per: JFK Library Staff.

 

Is this not the second "bay of pigs" in the chain of contempt the Military built of events?

 

The back-channel communication with Khruschev.

 

Civil Rights Policy,

 

Getting out of the SEAsian Games for the ante compared to later.

 

NSAM policy of offering to cooperate in Space with the USSR.

 

The Steel face off before all that.

 

The American University Speech to find a way to end the cold-war.

 

The steps go on up to the end of the dream of peace.

 

Sometimes I think if Nixon had been President at that time (Missile Crisis) it would have been thermonuclear termination,

then I think, wait the Unseen Gentry would never have let it get to that.

Then again sometimes I just sits and thinks.

Jim


  • Bob Wilkerson likes this

#2 Bob Wilkerson

Bob Wilkerson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:29 PM

Jim

 

I remember living through the Cuban Missile Crisis.  I was 15 years old and living in Abilene, Texas.  Abilene was, and is, home to Dyess Air Force Base, at the time, home of B-52s of the USAF's Strategic Air Command.  Every year the local paper would publish an update of the estimated number of Russian nukes that were targeting our city.  Needless to say, the crisis had every one of us on edge.  The base was put on and increased DEFCON status, and stayed there for quite a while.  I don't think my father, a South Pacific combat veteran slept hardly at all until the Russian boats turned around.  It was a very tense time.  i think it was in McNamara's film "The Fog of War", that McNamara said we came even closer than we thought to a nuclear tragedy.  He said (if my memory serves) that theater nuclear missiles on the island were mission ready and could be used on the command of local commanders.  That is a scary, scary thought!  I'm not sure if Nixon would have pulled the trigger, but thank God Curtis LeMay didn't have that authority.

 

I'm trying to list your examples in order of importance.  How would list them as such?  

 

Bob


Bob

Hony soit qui mal e pense.


#3 Jim Hackett II

Jim Hackett II

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:08 PM

Thanks for reply Mr. Wilkerson,

 

I was only 9 in '62, but my home was one of the after dinner news-watching, political talking family until the genearational divide halted that about the time Bobby was killed.

In '62 Crisis I got really worried when the olive drab barrels of water turned up in the hallways of the school.

The "new" duck-n-cover crap drills in school I already knew of from first grade around Tampa.

That didn't frighten me, reading the Collier's Encyclopedia re: Nukes did scare me.

 

Order of importance is a tough criteria for the events of 1960 - 1964.

>Speculation alert<

I feel that there was a trend of the Empire's thinking opposing both Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy.

The close of the Eisenhower administration with a Crusade for Peace and a hoped for Paris Summit Conference indicated what Ike Eisenhower wanted to end his "political" career conducting PEACE.

Those of the Dulles Brothers kinds of mindset opposed all that.

Someone sabotaged all those efforts and it was not Russian spys or "fellow travelers", it was of the Military/Intelligence/Industrial Complex in the U-2 Crisis that the evil ones exploited their power.

 

Eisenhower was one of the guys, a career military soldier but even he was mistaken when he thought he was President.

The Enemy didn't care about Ike's service, an empire's power was being threatened.

They didn't care what the citizens thought about Eisenhower.

 

John Kennedy also mistakenly thought he was President.

He was not stupid enough to be dragged into Cuba when the Empire set him up in the honeymoon of his administration in the Bay of Pigs sabotaged operation.

Afterwards he executed actions to stop that kind of BS and officials openly lying to him, I think really p**sed him off.

Being Irish he knew well that calmer heads do not prevail when the fit hits the shan.

 

When he issued NSAMs 57,8 and 9 he declared his intention to halt the Spooks from running wild and reign in the spooks to be under the control of the JCStaff and there his immediate control and command.

 

I think the open revolt arose of that effort and other things he did.

It is indicative of the attitude of both sides of the aisle.

War vs. Peace. Peace lost in the devastation of Eisenhower's leaving office and it lost in the end in the November Coup.

 

I am reminded of the transition period between the two admins. Docs indicate that the Bay Of Pigs as Eisenhower authorized a small almost covert op with 60 HIGHLY TRAINED Cuban operatives with some covert air assets, then Nixon by most accounts upped the thing to a fiasco of many times the size and risk to people. To then be inherited by the incoming Kennedy admin with the "Best and Brightest".

 

Little over a year later the Missiles of October turned the DOD livid.

Kennedy's peaceful conclusion of the crisis really upset the Empire.

 

A back channel link to "the enemy" have many precedents in history. Sucessful ones too

But that uncontrolled unaltered direct communication was another point of contention.

Not thru the NRO, nor the NSA, nor the State Dept. nor the CIA did the end of the fear come.

But thru personal and direct communication was peace kept alive.

Fear lost again, there was something about the Kennedy guy.

 

"13 Days" as a film I find to be largely supported by events and what we can now prove about the events.

In fact it is a little weaker than the documents would support about where the lines were drawn in the upper levels of "power".

 

"The Fog of War" is important too as you observed. Robert McNamara pretty well laid it out when he said even Curt Le May admitted if we had lost WW2 he would have been tried as a war criminal.

 

Things had become toxic between the DOD and their civilian BOSSES after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy had made the mid-term election of 62 irrelevant.

WeThePeople knew he had saved the world with a little help from the "enemy".

 

After the Oxford Mississippi riots quelled by US Marshalls it should not have been a surprise Kennedy would introduce civil rights legislation and the opposition just became even more radical.

 

I find it of note that in both the Missile Crisis and the Civil Rights issues, Kennedy took the issues to his bosses - WeThePeople on TV.

Two could play the media to effect as both sides did so.

 

An offer to cooperate with the Russians in space? After we had almost "caught up with them"?!?!

As military as NASA has always been their reaction is predictable

 

It is my view that by June 1963 American University speech the decision was made to "get rid of him".

To change our view of the Soviet Union? Unthinkable to the Dulles Folks and the Luce folks.

To acknowldge that the Russians had beaten the Nazi horror machine was taken as denegrating the Veterans of the US efforts of WW2.

As opposed to the observation of history.

The Fable surmounting History even then.

 

I did not exactly answer the idea completely or in order of importance really. I beg pardon.

I wanted to examine and emphasize the trend of the power centers thoughts in more or less chronological order.

I do wonder how long it will be before America "elects" another President of courage.

Whoever that person is it will not be a chickenhawk product of the DOD empire like Dick Cheney or Don Rumsfeld or GW Bu$h.



#4 Jim Hackett II

Jim Hackett II

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:56 AM

13 Days on Youtube.

Compliments of Film makers and others.

 

This film is important. Cinema being as influenced by the MSM's psyop work, once in a while something meaningful sneaks into the public mind.

Execuitve Action, Seven Days in May and this film belong in that group of works with Mr. Stones JFK.

 

Thanks Greg and all.

Sincerely Jim



#5 Greg Burnham

Greg Burnham

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3,070 posts
  • LocationSan Diego, CA

Posted 08 April 2014 - 10:58 AM

You're welcome, Jim.


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
 
Greg Burnham
Admin

 

 

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

Forum:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Research Forum

 
YouTube Channel:
 
GooglePlus:
 
Twitter:
 
Facebook:
 

#6 Charles Drago

Charles Drago

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,116 posts
  • LocationWherever I am observed by myself.

Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:14 AM

Before everyone gets all quigley down under praising this cover-up facilitating abomination ... 

 

The original, working title of Thirteen Days might as well have been:  

 

Kenny O'Donnell Saves the World -- from Nuclear War and the Kennedy Naifs.

 

The film's message could not be more clear:  JFK and RFK were utterly out of their depth when dealing with what is now known to history as the Missile Crisis; were it not for the leadership and strength of Boston pol extraordinaire O'Donnell, Western civilization would have come to a fiery end and we'd all be watching TV by candlelight.

 

And so the filmmaker tells us, Yes, America, in October of '62 nuclear war was averted thanks to the mind and actions of a true American hero in the White House -- in spite of JFK and RFK.

 

Thirteen Days is pure character assassination -- its subtle message no different from that of depictions of JFK and RFK as morally bankrupt poseurs: Why are you getting so upset about the murders of two worthless political hacks?


"[Y]ou can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity." -- Graham Greene, The Quiet American

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence. He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave." -- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods

a wind has blown the rain away and blown
the sky away and all the leaves away,
and the trees stand. i think i too have known
autumn too long
-- e. e. cummings

#7 Jim Hackett II

Jim Hackett II

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:02 AM

Given that "13 Days" was consulted by the new source of all things CMCrisis Zelicow and Miller in agency of the "Miller Center", and the fact that the staff of the JFK Presidential Library has already denounced the presentation of Zelicow and Miller in "transcribing" the EXCOM meeting transcripts as inaccurate as to JFK and RFK's stance and confrontations there in.

 

Further that the real documentation refutes the Zelicow show again, there is no other conclusion but that:

 

Truth shines through like a Diamond in a Goat's Ass.

 

In spite of the work and psyops that some wanted "13 Days" to be, they failed the test. For veracity and as well as "peer review" of the documented actions of the involved people even if the wait for "declassification" was too long and drawn out.

 

Some won't look any farther than the film, I grant this, but some will smell the rotted fish in the trash pile and decide to seek more and better data.

 

Some will accept the Goat crap of the film at face value and stop there.

Some will dig and find the diamond in the mess.

 

Seeing the alignment of forces in the events is pretty transparent even in the film. Even the Zelicow treatment couldn't remove the smarmy slime from Mac Bundy in the film.

 

It may well be that the "13 Days" film was prepared to counter the real release of the EXCOM documentation.

That would fit the Miller Center Agenda of deception.

It pleases me that the efforts of obfuscation failed in the light of history.

FWIW.



#8 Stan Wilbourne

Stan Wilbourne

    Founding Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 161 posts

Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:20 AM

Perhaps I don't demand enough (and this is a personal question I ask myself a lot these days), but I thought the Bruce Greenwood performance as JFK alone made the movie worthwhile.  I don't think anyone has ever done a better job. Martin Sheen comes to mind as a worthy comparison.  It's a difficult role, and I love what Greenwood brought.

 

"When a man abandons his own judgment, well, there's a dishonor it that."  I saw this as the theme to the movie.  I didn't see the Kennedy brothers played as incompetants.

 

This was a movie by Kevin Costner for Kevin Costner.  He couldn't play JFK after all, although I would've loved to have seen that for all the wrong reasons.  The O'Donnell emphasis was silly, but to me,  it didn't take away from the impact of what I thought the movie was attempting to convey:  It was JFK up against the national security system.  In what may have been the biggest war ever fought in the history of the country.

 

LeMay storming down the hall.  "We gotta do something about the goddamn Kennedys."

 

The RFK meeting with the Soviet Ambassodor.  "We fear a takeover if we don't act."

 

I saw it as a very good entry point to Oliver Stone's "JFK."

 

I watched this movie with my three kids a few years ago.  They were 15, 13 and 10 at the time, I believe.  Afterwards we talked about it for about an hour.  It gave them a visual presentation and sparked their interest in a way I had been unable to do up to that point.  "Is all that true, Dad?"  What was emphaized was the extreme pressure President Kennedy was under in October of 1962.  My youngest son is now 15 and has become obsessed with all things JFK.  He told me recently that started when we first watched "13 Days" together.  I'll always look at this movie fondly.



#9 Greg Burnham

Greg Burnham

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3,070 posts
  • LocationSan Diego, CA

Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:37 AM

I certainly didn't see 13 Days as a "hit piece" against the Kennedy brothers' competence. Indeed, the absolutely unique quality of the crisis (the fact that NO president had ever faced anything similar) rendered it an impossible scenario for which to be fully prepared no matter who occupied the Oval Office. I thought the film captured that aspect very well. Indeed it was the extreme nature of the crisis that brought out their heroism. How does one demonstrate "pressure experienced" in a film? By the action and emotion

of the heroes. 

 

The mechanism the writers and director employed is a sort of reverse Peter Principle.

 

I call it, Burnham's Fire: "A person's competence only rises to its full potential when challenged by the brink of disaster."

 

I too agree that the "Kenny O saved the day" implication was not the best treatment.


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
 
Greg Burnham
Admin

 

 

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK

"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."  -- Farewell America (1968) 

“The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."  -- JFK

"A wise man can act a fool, but a foolish man can never act wise."  -- Unknown

 

Website:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Main Page

 

Forum:

AssassinationOfJFK.net Research Forum

 
YouTube Channel:
 
GooglePlus:
 
Twitter:
 
Facebook:
 

#10 Jim Hackett II

Jim Hackett II

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 928 posts

Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:22 AM

A personal note about "13 Days"....

I treasure an old VCR tape of this film. My Mom found the film when I could not.

For Christmas 2000 she gave me that film. Sure I replaced it later with the video disc.

 

My parents even watched this film with me. Most comments were of the "I didn't know that!" variety.

I let the film speak for itself and commented after.

 

As my own aside, I was fascinated by the U-2 model used.

A powered Sailplane the U-2.

Not that this is to imply the U-2 was an easy craft to pilot,

it was not by accounts of pilots of the "Dragon Lady" aircraft.

Gary Powers was no dumb hick from West Virginia.

 

I was a little disappointed in that I could tell the destruction of the U-2 in the film was a model.

A neat model to be sure. Destroyed for the telling of the tale.

 

I didn't note the depiction of JFK and RFK as "weak sisters" opposed to Kenny O'Donnell as "strong".

Rather I took as strength of character for both men in seeking an "outside the box" thinking and solution from other 'honest brokers'.

After the other means of communication were failing and flailing at the darkness of saber rattling escalation.

Kenny O'Donnell "whistling in the dark" while waiting as RFK negotiated with the USSR embassy official was central to the efforts to end the deepening crisis.

Theatric device to communicate tension, sure but also the real history of the events by most accounts.

 

In the time of the film's release and advertising I too was put off by the "O'Donnell Saves the World" screed.

I knew better, but then again that tag-line was part of the MSM promotions. Same old ***t!

 

They have to denigrate both or all three, er all four Kennedy sons of Joe, motivated by their buried guilt and shame.

To be expected and discarded in the face of "Real History"

 

Jim



#11 Christina Gill

Christina Gill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 596 posts

Posted 13 April 2015 - 12:38 PM

A brief phone conversation between President Kennedy and his predecessor President Eisenhower about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

 

 

 

 


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -President John F.Kennedy

 

"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -President John F. Kennedy

 

"Forgive your enemies but never forget their names." -President John F. Kennedy

 

JFK

 

 

 

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Web Work by: XmasZen.com